Food for thought

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Food for thought

#1815673

Post by latebloomer »

For several months, I've been following Doc's topic, "...and now it begins". The topic began with Trump's election, and still is running. It illuminates not only a government our founding fathers would not recognize, but also one that would horrify them.

Sadly, it also illuminates, far too often, a people the founders wouldn't recognize -- hostile to one another, convinced that what we believe is right because we believe it, and, therefore, that everyone who believes something else is wrong.

How did we get that government and become those people? -- that is, How did we get from where we were in 1787 to where we are now? -- is a question I've been trying to answer since 1969.

I've amassed a huge digital file and print library of answers. I invite you to explore my findings with me.

But first, a few ground rules.

Changing what we believe is difficult, if not impossible, especially if it is based on faith, the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. [1] We usually can justify what we believe by citing the evidence that supports our belef, but faith is based on trust, on confidence, in what we hope. In our time, belief and faith seem to have merged. Belief may be subject to reason (logic); faith is not.

So, come, let us reason together [2], temperately.

1. Don't call one another's opinions wrong. Just state your opinion.
2. If you can, support your opinion with fact, or at least cite your evidence. We're each entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. [3]
3. If your opinion differs, state your difference with someone else's opinion. Good parents tell a child they do not like his behavior, never that they do not like him. We're all friends, here. Let's keep it that way! Be polite; respect the other person's right to hold their own opinion.
4. Try to stay on topic, which is how we got from there to here, and where that's going to take us. But that's a wide-ranging topic, so at least please try to avoid the blatantly irrelevant.
5. Please don't quote an entire previous post; just give the name of its poster. Let us take that to mean, "regarding Izzy's remarks", not necessarily "to Izzy". If many are posting, that should keep the conversation more than usually brief, and perhaps less contentious. If you wish to refer to a particular word, phrase, or paragraph in a longer post, by all means quote that specific part, so we all know exactly to what you are responding.
[1] Hebrew 1:1
[2] Isaiah 1:18
[3] https://quoteinvestigator.com/2020/03/17/own-facts/

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Re: Food for thought

#1815682

Post by latebloomer »

For beginners, some thoughts I've been digesting lately:

An address at Trinity Forum on 26 April 2019 by Sen. Ben Sasse (R-NE) on his book Them: Why We Hate Each Other -- and How to Heal, 272 pages, including index, etc. The video is about an hour-and-a-half long, including a fairly brief address and a longer question-and-answer session. I wish every American would watch it, then read the book. Both are very, very thought-provoking. For parents concerned about the world their kids are growing up in, and will one day enter on their own, I think it's essential reading. I should add that neither speech nor book are about politics.

An Evening Conversation with Senator Ben Sasse in Nashville, TN: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqWaXB5yxcI

Simultaneously, I'm reading Start With Why: How Great Leaders Inspire Everyone to Take Action by Simon Sinek, 246 pages including index, etc. Having struggled more than thirty years ago to found and reluctantly chair a citizens' organization, which became very successful despite my inadequate leadership, I've long been interested in how leadership works. This one is full of interesting stories of leadership that worked, and some that didn't, and why knowing what you mean to accomplish -- that is, why you're doing what you do -- is the key to dong it successfully. For me, at least, grasping Sinek's point has been slow and difficult; so far, at least, his Why seems to be a difficult thing to pin down. Could be that that's what makes me such a poor leader!

Having read about the same percentage of both books, I began to suspect that they would, at some point, converge, and they did.

Both books are widely available. I bought mine from Alibris.com, which has thus far (I think) escaped Amazon's maw.

Them: Why We Hate Each Other -- And How To Heal: https://www.alibris.com/booksearch?mtype=B&keyword=Sasse%2C+Them&hs.x=0&hs.y=0&hs=Submit
Start With Why: https://www.alibris.com/Start-with-Why-How-Great-Leaders-Inspire-Everyone-to-Take-Action-Simon-Sinek/book/11466914?qsort=p&matches=159

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Last edited by latebloomer on Sun Jan 31, 2021 2:16 am, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: Food for thought

#1815685

Post by latebloomer »

Here's an interesting, and hopeful experiment:
Don't be put off by the URL; it hardly seems to refer to the article, but the link is valid!

One county, worlds apart: Bridging the political divide
https://apnews.com/article/biden-inauguration-joe-biden-religion-frederick-coronavirus-pandemic-1ca9c76a48b5b20371ae6491e425d184

Maybe we can do that, too.

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Re: Food for thought

#1815690

Post by latebloomer »

From a long-ago but still cherished day:

20 January 1961, John F. Kennedy's Inaugural Address: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEC1C4p0k3E, a little over 15 minutes.

Still gives me goose-bumps and bring tears to my eyes, as it did that day.

An aside: The forecast for that day was clear, sunny, and cold, but not for snow. But snow it did, and snow and snow, 8 inches worth, overnight, throwing the District of Columbia -- especially the inaugural planners and those responsible for streets and roads -- into abject panic. Our usual weatherman, Louie Allen, then probably indisputably the Washington area's leading weather light, explained later with some chagrin that somehow the wrong day's weather analysis had been put before him, which he failed to notice.

Nobody's perfect. Nobody.

See also https://www.clickorlando.com/weather/2021/01/21/weather-history-snow-during-presidential-inaugurations/.

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Re: Food for thought

#1815697

Post by latebloomer »

From all I can determine by checking polls, reading articles by Associated Press News, the Washington Post, Truthout, and The Atlantic, we have a sharp divide of opinion in the country at the moment, all right: Seems to me that most Americans (regardless of their political persuasion) are horrified by the insurrection on January 6, by the incitement of it that's been building for months (at least) -- and by Congressional Republicans' apparent determination to sweep it under the rug and the continued determination of some media outlets and members of reactionary (if not revolutionary) groups to remain devoted to Trump and Trumpism.

That most Americans retain a grasp on our longstanding national attitude that elections result in a victorious and a defeated candidate, that whoever we vote for, the victorious candidate is who WE elected, that we all hope that victorious candidate serves the nation or state or county or city or town well, effectively, and honestly. That's reassuring and comforting.

Political discourse always, always involves statements that ignore inconvenient facts, stretch truth, or outright deny truth, but how did we become a nation that tolerates politicians who peddle outright lies deliberately? Aside from rejecting such candidates at the ballot box, how do we rein in deliberate distortion, not to mention calculated fabrication in political discourse?

One way is to denounce such speech, every time, immediately, to anyone who dares such a perversion of our right to free speech.

I spent yesterday writing to every Republican senator and a few Democrats, too -- the jurors in the impending impeachment trial -- my insistence that they remember that the oaths they very recently took as senators, and as jurors, bind them to preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution, not their constituents, not their states, not their political parties, not their own political careers, and certainly not Trump.

That little exercise took me a couple of hours. It's filling all the forms with my name, address, etc., that's so tedious and time-consuming, because I use private browsing. I sent almost exactly the same remarks to the 60 senators I addressed, with a personally-targeted sentence or two here and there, and those remarks were simply pasted in, which took ony a second. But if I do not use private browsing, all my information is retained by the Capitol computer brain, and posts quickly into place for each form.

My comments almost certainly never will be read by any senator or representative, but I'm hoping thousands of other citizens are chiming in, too, and hoping that the weight of our combined voices may have some effect. Sending my opinion is not much, in the scheme of things, but it's something I can do, and makes me feel that I'm doing my part of governing (sending my instructions), which is better than heplessly nursing my ulcer.

Go to senate.gov and house.gov and whitehouse.gov, find the Contact button, and put in your two cents' worth, too. Hunt up the ways to contact state, county, and local electeds, too. They all need to hear from us.

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Re: Food for thought

#1816395

Post by latebloomer »

Wayfarer posted this on another forum relative to another topic, but it is one of many videos that helps to indicate the viewpoint of some of us. Please have a look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-zT15C7eqnI&feature=emb_logo

To me, that's a daunting display of the point of view of at least some on one shore of the yawning chasm that has opened in American society.

I also read yesterday comments by a man who was at the Capitol on 6 January, but did not go in. He stoutly denied that "antifa" had anything to do with that assemblage or the events inside the Capitol, and insisted that only "Patriots" were involved. He said they were very proud of standing up to the government, and expected to be regarded as heroes. He seemed to be astonished that there has been any other reaction.

And then there's Rep. Marjorie Greene of Georgia, and Rep. Kevin McCarthy, and Sen. Lindsey Graham and Sen. Ted Cruz, to name but a few, who are outspokenly stoking the outrage of the "Patriots", and Sen. Rob Portman, who thinks we should just move on, as many Congressional Republicans and a few Congressional Democrats do.

However, there also are at least 30,000 people who have withdrawn their registration in the Republican Party since 6 January.

How do we begin to breach the gaps? How do we prevent any more insurrections, or any more acts of political domestic violence? Where can we locate people who disagree with us and try to begin discussing among ourselves the fact that we're all still Americans, who love our country and are worried about the future?

We were a nation of dissenters long before 1776 -- in fact, the first arrivals fled here because they'd been dissenters in the countries from which they had emigrated! But usually we have managed to agree to disagree. How do we regain that national outlook and use it to rebuild our now-hostile society into a new civil society?



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Re: Food for thought

#1821851

Post by latebloomer »

Please read this article, which is about a small Illinois town and county and COVID,
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2021/02/26/du-quoin-covid-nursing-home/?arc404=true.

It's interesting, stirring, even -- but unsurprising.

Then page all the way down and read the comments. That's where the gold is: Observations from all over the country, and some very sound takes on how we got here. For instance:
21-02-26, Oppositional Defiant Disorder.jpg
21-02-26, Oppositional Defiant Disorder cause.jpg
Thanks.

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Re: Food for thought

#1821874

Post by iplayastrat »

latebloomer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:08 am

For several months, I've been following Doc's topic, "...and now it begins".

2. If you can, support your opinion with fact, or at least cite your evidence. We're each entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. [3]

4. Try to stay on topic, which is how we got from there to here, and where that's going to take us. But that's a wide-ranging topic, so at least please try to avoid the blatantly irrelevant.

5. Please don't quote an entire previous post; just give the name of its poster. Let us take that to mean, "regarding Izzy's remarks", not necessarily "to Izzy". If many are posting, that should keep the conversation more than usually brief, and perhaps less contentious. If you wish to refer to a particular word, phrase, or paragraph in a longer post, by all means quote that specific part, so we all know exactly to what you are responding.


Latebloomer

Have you noticed the dark one doesn't know how to enjoy a win?*


#2 won't work either. No one agrees on sources.

#4 stay on topic? We're all guilty of going off in another direction. Especially me.

#5 Thank you!!! Some people cry out of context, but I say it's easier
than scrolling through a book worth of words to answer a simple question.


* Win for some and a terrible loss for the other 50% of Americans.


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Re: Food for thought

#1821924

Post by mike edwards66 »

iplayastrat wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:17 am
latebloomer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:08 am
5. Please don't quote an entire previous post; just give the name of its poster.
#5 Thank you!!! Some people cry out of context, but I say it's easier
than scrolling through a book worth of words to answer a simple question.
I agree with both of you! I've said it before and I'll say it again, just quote the part you are replying to.

latebloomer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:08 am
5. Please don't quote an entire previous post; just give the name of its poster. Let us take that to mean, "regarding Izzy's remarks", not necessarily "to Izzy".
Who is this Izzy chick, she sounds fun, any pictures?

latebloomer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:08 am
4. Try to stay on topic, which is how we got from there to here, and where that's going to take us.
How did we get here from there
Did we miss the turn somewhere
Is the road beyond repair
How did we get here from there


You know which great philosopher said that, Jimmy Orion Ellis. And some people think he was just a pillock in a mask.


>>>


some people say i done all right for a girl . . . oh yeah yeah


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Re: Food for thought

#1822069

Post by iplayastrat »

mike edwards66 wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:37 pm
iplayastrat wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 11:17 am
latebloomer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:08 am
5. Please don't quote an entire previous post; just give the name of its poster.
#5 Thank you!!! Some people cry out of context, but I say it's easier
than scrolling through a book worth of words to answer a simple question.
I agree with both of you! I've said it before and I'll say it again, just quote the part you are replying to.

Great minds think alike.

On another subject. Are you going to be commenting
on CPAC Mr. Edwards?


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Re: Food for thought

#1822139

Post by mike edwards66 »

iplayastrat wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 9:21 am
On another subject. Are you going to be commenting
on CPAC Mr. Edwards?
As our favourite guy was prone to say, we'll see what happens. If I do, it won't be on this topic, let us respect the topic author's wishes:
latebloomer wrote:
Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:08 am
4. Try to stay on topic, which is how we got from there to here, and where that's going to take us.


>>>


some people say i done all right for a girl . . . oh yeah yeah


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Re: Food for thought

#1822276

Post by iplayastrat »

mike edwards66 wrote:
Sun Feb 28, 2021 6:35 pm

As our favourite guy was prone to say, we'll see what happens. If I do, it won't be on this topic, let us respect the topic author's wishes:
It happened, and he's running again! Better start that new thread.


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