Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Anything about Elvis
More than 100 Million visitors can't be wrong

Moderators: FECC-Moderator, Moderator3, Site Mechanic


Topic author
monkboughtlunch
Posts: 1661
Registered for: 17 years 5 months
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by monkboughtlunch »

This is interesting. Listen to the sound of Oh Happy Day on this YouTube clip.



It is by far sonically superior to the bizarre, hissy, tin-can sonic sludge that Jorgenson issued on the third disc of the 2000 That's The Way It Is box set.

Even stranger, this clip was apparently created circa 2000 for the That's The Way It Is SE. The clip was cut from the original DVD, but is slated for release on an upcoming DVD reissue.

So if it existed in better quality in 2000, why did Jorgenson issue a much inferior sounding version on the 3CD box set in 2000?

Do you think BMG will ever release a better sounding recording of Oh Happy Day on CD?
User avatar

KiwiAlan
Posts: 11660
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Been thanked: 15 times

Post by KiwiAlan »

It might have just been cleaned up with the newer technology of 2007 perhaps.
When you get to the point where you really understand your computer, it's probably obsolete
User avatar

drjohncarpenter
Posts: 97724
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: United States of America
Has thanked: 10161 times
Been thanked: 23066 times
Age: 85

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue cra

Post by drjohncarpenter »

monkboughtlunch wrote:Do you think BMG will ever release a better sounding recording of Oh Happy Day on CD?
Yo! BMG issued a superb-sounding version in 2001:

Image

Oh Happy Day: Best Of The Edwin Hawkins Singers

Label: Buddha Records
Catalog No: BMG 74465997272
Release Date: 2001-08-07
.
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!

Kenneth
Posts: 539
Registered for: 14 years 9 months
Location: Harstad, Norway
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Age: 53

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue cra

Post by Kenneth »

monkboughtlunch wrote:This is interesting. Listen to the sound of Oh Happy Day on this YouTube clip.



It is by far sonically superior to the bizarre, hissy, tin-can sonic sludge that Jorgenson issued on the third disc of the 2000 That's The Way It Is box set.

Even stranger, this clip was apparently created circa 2000 for the That's The Way It Is SE. The clip was cut from the original DVD, but is slated for release on an upcoming DVD reissue.

So if it existed in better quality in 2000, why did Jorgenson issue a much inferior sounding version on the 3CD box set in 2000?

Do you think BMG will ever release a better sounding recording of Oh Happy Day on CD?
If he search through MGM own recordings and have access to them. At that time when the box came out Ernst told me that he diden't have better recording of it. Then, I told him that MGM own recording was much better and I refered to the clip which was on the internet for a long time and I asked why BMG haven't gone through the MGM recordings and use their if they were better than RCA own recordings. Well, I never got any response from him when I told that :wink:

Sincerely

Kenneth

TONY
Posts: 5662
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: MIDDLESEX
Been thanked: 8 times

HAPPY

Post by TONY »

Yes, this is the best I've heard it, apart from it still has the guys talking and messing around on the audio! This is far superior to BMG's "mix" which is no surprise!
User avatar

Joe Car
Posts: 11591
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 45 times
Been thanked: 492 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue cra

Post by Joe Car »

Kenneth wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:This is interesting. Listen to the sound of Oh Happy Day on this YouTube clip.



It is by far sonically superior to the bizarre, hissy, tin-can sonic sludge that Jorgenson issued on the third disc of the 2000 That's The Way It Is box set.

Even stranger, this clip was apparently created circa 2000 for the That's The Way It Is SE. The clip was cut from the original DVD, but is slated for release on an upcoming DVD reissue.

So if it existed in better quality in 2000, why did Jorgenson issue a much inferior sounding version on the 3CD box set in 2000?

Do you think BMG will ever release a better sounding recording of Oh Happy Day on CD?
If he search through MGM own recordings and have access to them. At that time when the box came out Ernst told me that he diden't have better recording of it. Then, I told him that MGM own recording was much better and I refered to the clip which was on the internet for a long time and I asked why BMG haven't gone through the MGM recordings and use their if they were better than RCA own recordings. Well, I never got any response from him when I told that :wink:

Sincerely

Kenneth
James Burton is beaming in this video, awesome, thanks Kenneth!

Keith F

Re: HAPPY

Post by Keith F »

TONY wrote:Yes, this is the best I've heard it, apart from it still has the guys talking and messing around on the audio!
Ever thought that this is a Mono tape Tony, and they can't take out the talking ? How can they take out the talking in a one (Mono) channel tape?
TONY wrote:This is far superior to BMG's "mix" which is no surprise!
What Mix? It's a Mono tape! It can't be mixed differently! It's one channel, for God's sake! Only picked up by the movie camera's and not recorded professionally by RCA.

I can only guess that Ernst used a lower generation tape source for TTWII SE CD and didn't think to go into MGM's video archives to find a better source.
User avatar

KiwiAlan
Posts: 11660
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Been thanked: 15 times

Post by KiwiAlan »

Would Ernst been allowed to fish in another companies files....and if he could would MGM have demanded a price that would be prohibitive for the project.

I expect that Ernst did the best he could.
When you get to the point where you really understand your computer, it's probably obsolete

Topic author
monkboughtlunch
Posts: 1661
Registered for: 17 years 5 months
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Post by monkboughtlunch »

It is probable, as suggested, that RCA didn't record this Oh Happy Day rehearsal. If true, even the crappy source that was issued on the TTWII 3CD set in 2000, decended ultimately from an MGM Nagra recording or some sort of optical film track originally recorded to synch up the 16 track masters in post production.

However, the improved fidelity of the audio clip here from the You Tube version suggests this better version was sourced from a Nagra recorder. We know that the Nagra tapes made of Elvis in rehearsal by MGM during filming were done on 2 track, as evinced by the "stereo" Nagra rehearsal recordings Jorgensen DID include on disc 3 of the TTWII box set. Examples of the twin track Nagra MGM tapes include "Such a Night" and "Mary in the Morning" etc.

So if Jorgensen was able to include these MGM Nagra tapes way back in the 2000 set, why did he not include the superior fidelity source for Oh Happy Day which we know existed at the time as it was in fact edited for the 2000 SE version, but expunged by penny pinchers when issuing the DVD?

Perhaps we will never know the answer, but given that this may be the only officially released "soundboard" of Elvis singing the song, it begs the question: Will Jorgensen ever document "Oh Happy Day" in acceptable audio fidelity? It's a question certainly worth exploring, and hopefully Elvis' stunning rehearsal of this track will be properly documented if FTD revisits the TTWII material.

Maybe we will even get the multitrack recorded version of "Oh Happy Day" that was taped by RCA during the afternoon stage rehearsal on Aug. 10. This unreleased version comes from the same pro tape source that yielded the rehearsal of "You've Lost That Loving Feeling" on the Silver box. This version would not be a medium fidelity 2 track Nagra. It would come from a 16 track pro tape source. However, it has not been confirmed if this pro-taped Aug. 10 version of "Oh Happy Day" is complete or just a few lines. I don't think it's ever been booted. Anyone know for sure?
User avatar

drjohncarpenter
Posts: 97724
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: United States of America
Has thanked: 10161 times
Been thanked: 23066 times
Age: 85

Post by drjohncarpenter »

monkboughtlunch wrote:So if Jorgensen was able to include these MGM Nagra tapes way back in the 2000 set, why did he not include the superior fidelity source for Oh Happy Day ... ?
Is it even remotely possible he simply did not have access to that particular source at the time it was needed?
.
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!

Topic author
monkboughtlunch
Posts: 1661
Registered for: 17 years 5 months
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Post by monkboughtlunch »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:So if Jorgensen was able to include these MGM Nagra tapes way back in the 2000 set, why did he not include the superior fidelity source for Oh Happy Day ... ?
Is it even remotely possible he simply did not have access to that particular source at the time it was needed?
That's a plausible hypothesis given that the 3 CD box was issued in July 2000.

However, 6 months later circa Dec. 2000, an FTD entitled "One Night in Vegas" was released, which contained several additional TTWII MGM Nagra rehearsal recordings tagged on as bonus tracks. That was another opportunity to include the better sounding version of Oh Happy Day.

Perhaps Jorgensen wasn't aware of the existence of a better version or was not able to secure use of it, despite using many other MGM nagra tapes?

But the larger question is, will Jorgensen be able release it in the future? And what about the multitrack version recorded on Aug. 10? Does RCA have it, and is it complete? Any info Doc?

Kenneth
Posts: 539
Registered for: 14 years 9 months
Location: Harstad, Norway
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 15 times
Age: 53

Post by Kenneth »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
monkboughtlunch wrote:So if Jorgensen was able to include these MGM Nagra tapes way back in the 2000 set, why did he not include the superior fidelity source for Oh Happy Day ... ?
Is it even remotely possible he simply did not have access to that particular source at the time it was needed?
Or that he didn't know right in time for his release of the box. Strange as Ernst was clearly involved in the videoproduction of TTWII SE and must have taken notice of audiorecordings MGM had which was better that BMG already had. Maybe it was to late when he noticed that. To understand more of this we must find out when he became involved in the videowork. When exactly was the dvd released?

Kenneth

TONY
Posts: 5662
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: MIDDLESEX
Been thanked: 8 times

Re: HAPPY

Post by TONY »

Keith F wrote:
TONY wrote:Yes, this is the best I've heard it, apart from it still has the guys talking and messing around on the audio!
Ever thought that this is a Mono tape Tony, and they can't take out the talking ? How can they take out the talking in a one (Mono) channel tape?
TONY wrote:This is far superior to BMG's "mix" which is no surprise!
What Mix? It's a Mono tape! It can't be mixed differently! It's one channel, for God's sake! Only picked up by the movie camera's and not recorded professionally by RCA.

Not necessarily true! How come rehearsals of "Sweet Caroline" and "You've lost that lovin' feelin'" were released in perfect, stereo sound, recorded on the same stage, using the same equipment??!! You can't tell me that in 1970, MGM decided to use a mono system to record that one song, when everything else was done in stereo!? Also, I have heard this version of "Oh happy day" without the laughing!!

stari062
Posts: 248
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Been thanked: 1 time

...

Post by stari062 »

Are those rehearsals of LOVIN FEELIN and SWEET CAROLINE, not from AUGUST 10....while HAPPY DAY, is AUG 7?
That could explain the sound....
User avatar

drjohncarpenter
Posts: 97724
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: United States of America
Has thanked: 10161 times
Been thanked: 23066 times
Age: 85

Re: HAPPY

Post by drjohncarpenter »

TONY wrote:Not necessarily true! How come rehearsals of "Sweet Caroline" and "You've lost that lovin' feelin'" were released in perfect, stereo sound, recorded on the same stage, using the same equipment??!!
Same stage, different day, different equipment. Go to bed now, "TONY."
.
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!

TONY
Posts: 5662
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: MIDDLESEX
Been thanked: 8 times

JOHN

Post by TONY »

So, "John Carpenter" (or Bert?), did they disassemble all the recording equipment used for the 7th of august, then bring in a crappy mono cassette recorder for the 10th?! Were you there?!
User avatar

drjohncarpenter
Posts: 97724
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: United States of America
Has thanked: 10161 times
Been thanked: 23066 times
Age: 85

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Oh, "TONY," you are amusing.

But I am disappointed no one appreciated my Edwin Hawkins reference.
.
Dr. John Carpenter, M.D.
Stop, look and listen, baby <<--->> that's my philosophy!
User avatar

thenexte
Posts: 1559
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Post by thenexte »

More footage from the Aug 7, 1970 rehearsal:

http://www.biwa.ne.jp/~presley/IveLostYou-TTWII-Outtake.wmv

Topic author
monkboughtlunch
Posts: 1661
Registered for: 17 years 5 months
Has thanked: 62 times
Been thanked: 132 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by monkboughtlunch »

Bumping this ancient thread since a box of 8 rehearsal discs is on the way from Sony, presumably by end of this year.

Does anyone know if MGM/Warner has a superior recording of Oh Happy Day in their archive than what BMG / Sony have issued in the past on their CD releases?

If so, was Jorgensen given access to the potentially superior Oh Happy Day source tapes in the Warner vault for the TTWII 8 CD book?

Wiebe
Posts: 1550
Registered for: 7 years 10 months
Location: Netherlands
Has thanked: 294 times
Been thanked: 480 times
Age: 47

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by Wiebe »

I don't think Warner had a better source either as all sound from the stage rehearsal in the SE is bad. No band and orchestra, just Elvis.
User avatar

LSP-4445
Posts: 2672
Registered for: 7 years 7 months
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by LSP-4445 »

monkboughtlunch wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:37 am
Bumping this ancient thread since a box of 8 rehearsal discs is on the way from Sony, presumably by end of this year. Does anyone know if MGM/Warner has a superior recording of Oh Happy Day in their archive than what BMG / Sony have issued in the past on their CD releases?
If so, was Jorgensen given access to the potentially superior Oh Happy Day source tapes in the Warner vault for the TTWII 8 CD book?
MGM posted online in 200O Oh happy day and little sister live video clip outakes and OHD was indeed much better sounding there vs what bmg have released on cd.
I think I still have the files stored on some backup cdrs/dvdrs but havent watched them in a long time.
But for Sony now to release better sounding version they must most likely buy the recordings/rights from Warner....or use their own inferior recordings.
Regarding this new upcoming set im more interested in the sound quality than anything else...hoping for sound upgrade&mixes and not just rerelease the rehearsals as previously released.
.
.
Image
.
.
Image
User avatar

Johnny2523
Posts: 11029
Registered for: 8 years 4 months
Has thanked: 1773 times
Been thanked: 5367 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by Johnny2523 »

monkboughtlunch wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:37 am
Bumping this ancient thread since a box of 8 rehearsal discs is on the way from Sony, presumably by end of this year.

Does anyone know if MGM/Warner has a superior recording of Oh Happy Day in their archive than what BMG / Sony have issued in the past on their CD releases?

If so, was Jorgensen given access to the potentially superior Oh Happy Day source tapes in the Warner vault for the TTWII 8 CD book?
you basically asked the same question on the other thread about this rehearsal date. i don't think they have any better source, we've had tracks from this rehearsal before on a few releases and the sound mix wasnt great. I doubt there will be any significant upgrade unless they mix in the camera footage which imho sounds better.
if you'll try a little kindness and you'll overlook the blindness
Of the narrow minded people on the narrow minded streets
User avatar

rockinrebel
Posts: 2466
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: Elvis Country
Has thanked: 1303 times
Been thanked: 926 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by rockinrebel »

Links to the MGM video uploads from my old website:

https://www.elvicities.com/~rockinrebel/Multimed.htm

These are real player files, so not sure if there is a suitable player available now?
User avatar

LSP-4445
Posts: 2672
Registered for: 7 years 7 months
Has thanked: 93 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by LSP-4445 »

rockinrebel wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:59 am
Links to the MGM video uploads from my old website:
https://www.elvicities.com/~rockinrebel/Multimed.htm
These are real player files, so not sure if there is a suitable player available now?

Potplayer and VLC player among others should have no playback issues.
.
.
Image
.
.
Image
User avatar

Mike Windgren
Posts: 8751
Registered for: 17 years 7 months
Location: España.
Has thanked: 2057 times
Been thanked: 3771 times

Re: Oh Happy Day - in better sound, so why did BMG issue crap?

Post by Mike Windgren »

Hi there!! :D :D :D.
rockinrebel wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 10:59 am
Links to the MGM video uploads from my old website:

https://www.elvicities.com/~rockinrebel/Multimed.htm

These are real player files, so not sure if there is a suitable player available now?
I played it with Real Player and downloaded it :wink:. Thanks!. Bye for now :smt006.
Maestro. Mike Windgren. Torero!!!!!!!!.
Always Trying To Make Peace <<--->> On FECC
Not The Best, Just The Coolest Guy Around!.
.


Viva el vino, viva el dinero, viva, viva el amor!!.

Image