"Only Made It Out To Needles" --> 1967 Gas Station Hello!

[monkboughtlunch]

No way 64....I go for 66/67.

Belt comparison.

beltcompare.jpg

[wecanmakethemorning]

The other day I stumbled across a cute, fuzzy little candid taken of Elvis with a young fan in Needles, California.

It looked like the site kind of guessed at the date, and I decided to see if I could do better.

Patty and the King: 1962
Submitted by BamBam on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 12:03pm.

Patty Regan Kingsbaker, my commercial agent when I'm in Denver and one of my favorite people in the world. Photo taken at a gas station in Needles California when she was 12 years old. Oh, and that guy standing beside her? Yeah, that's Elvis.

https://www.shorpy.com/node/11003

Well, it's not from 1962, as the vehicle behind them is Elvis' 1964 Series 75 Fleetwood limousine.

My guess is this was taken in June 1967, with Elvis en route to MGM to film "Speedway."

• Needles is a straight shot westward from Memphis

• He appears to be wearing a weighted fitness belt (trim a bit more for the movie?)

• Elvis looks very much like a candid from this time, taken at 10550 Rocca Place in Los Angeles

And young Patty Regan could easily have been about 17, she's not a very tall lady. She graduated from high school in June 1968.


Patty Regan 1968
Miami Palmetto High School Graduates, Pinecrest, Florida
https://www.alumniclass.com/miami-palmetto-high-school-panthers-pinecrest-fl/profile/patty-regan/1415732/


She's still with us, living the good life in Colorado.






Patty Regan Kingsbaker, talent agent and artist

https://www.pattykingsbaker.com/
https://www.instagram.com/pattyregankingsbaker/
https://www.facebook.com/patty.kingsbaker/


Maybe little stopovers like this were one reason Elvis was later drawn to cover the Three Dog Night hit, "Never Been To Spain" . . .


Well, I headed for Las Vegas
Only made it out to Needles

I think the Apache necktie and high collar put it in the 1966/67 period.

[monkboughtlunch]

I think the Apache necktie and high collar put it in the 1966/67 period.

I don't think that's a necktie. It's probably a shadow due to the low angle of the sun. That dark area of shadow is only on one half of his neck behind where the sun is striking his collar. I think collar height is inconclusive. He wore bigger than average collars prior to 1966/67.

nonecktie.jpg

needles.jpg

1964 collars.jpg

[Gary Crawford]

The other day I stumbled across a cute, fuzzy little candid taken of Elvis with a young fan in Needles, California.

It looked like the site kind of guessed at the date, and I decided to see if I could do better.

Patty and the King: 1962
Submitted by BamBam on Mon, 08/22/2011 - 12:03pm.

Patty Regan Kingsbaker, my commercial agent when I'm in Denver and one of my favorite people in the world. Photo taken at a gas station in Needles California when she was 12 years old. Oh, and that guy standing beside her? Yeah, that's Elvis.

https://www.shorpy.com/node/11003

Well, it's not from 1962, as the vehicle behind them is Elvis' 1964 Series 75 Fleetwood limousine.

My guess is this was taken in June 1967, with Elvis en route to MGM to film "Speedway."

• Needles is a straight shot westward from Memphis

• He appears to be wearing a weighted fitness belt (trim a bit more for the movie?)

• Elvis looks very much like a candid from this time, taken at 10550 Rocca Place in Los Angeles

And young Patty Regan could easily have been about 17, she's not a very tall lady. She graduated from high school in June 1968.


Patty Regan 1968
Miami Palmetto High School Graduates, Pinecrest, Florida
https://www.alumniclass.com/miami-palmetto-high-school-panthers-pinecrest-fl/profile/patty-regan/1415732/


She's still with us, living the good life in Colorado.







Patty Regan Kingsbaker, talent agent and artist

https://www.pattykingsbaker.com/
https://www.instagram.com/pattyregankingsbaker/
https://www.facebook.com/patty.kingsbaker/


Maybe little stopovers like this were one reason Elvis was later drawn to cover the Three Dog Night hit, "Never Been To Spain" . . .


Well, I headed for Las Vegas

Only made it out to Needles

I think the Apache necktie and high collar put it in the 1966/67 period.

I'd go as far as 1966 but still wouldn't completely rule out 1964. I think the hair appears bushier and longer in the photo because of the blur to the image causing a ghosting effect, making it look more 66/67 hair wise. However the jacket and belt would not make me rule out it being 1966 or even 1967, as even though he was mostly a wear once and never again guy, there were some exceptions. 4 year gap between Gold Lame jacket outings (1957 to 1961). Was the jacket he wore to meet Nixon not from the comeback special in 1968 (2.5 years earlier) and the inner top his Vegas stage one from July/Aug 1969? I also think that Patty could be anywhere between 13 and 17 given how petite she is, and the fact the quality of photo makes it so hard to tell. I do like a bit of a puzzle/mystery.......

[drjohncarpenter]

No way 64....I go for 66/67.

Yup.

It's too bad we don't have a clearer photo to work with, but with all the research I did I feel good about the general time frame.

It's just a blurry candid. No one needs to get into a frenzy over it.

[monkboughtlunch]

Has anyone actually messaged Patty Regan Kingsbaker for more details on the Needles gas station encounter? She has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/patty.kingsbaker/

So far, all the information is coming 2nd hand from her acquaintance on a blog post--and not directly from her. Presumably, she has much more information that could nail the timeframe.

For example, Ms. Regan's Facebook page says she graduated from high school in Florida. But did she live in California at the time of her Needles encounter with The King -- or was she just visiting California at the time?

1. Ms. Regan's hair in her 1966 and 1967 Miami, Florida high school yearbooks do not match the Needles, California photo.
2. Mr. Presley wears an identical jacket in September 1963.
3. Mr. Presley might be wearing a leather motorcycle kidney belt, similar to those he is pictured wearing circa March 1964.
4. The 1964 model-year Fleetwood may have started rolling off the GM assembly lines sometime in the 2nd half of 1963, and production may have continued well into 1964.
5. The Fleetwood is painted dark in the Needles photo. But a website claims Elvis repainted the Fleetwood silver in 1966.

[Gary Crawford]

No way 64....I go for 66/67.

Yup.

It's too bad we don't have a clearer photo to work with, but with all the research I did I feel good about the general time frame.

It's just a blurry candid. No one needs to get into a frenzy over it.

Sign of the times? Not much new to speak about in the Elvis world.....

[Jaime1234]

I go for the photo to have been taken in the early summer of 1967. And the limo was beautiful. Here is an exact model, different unit of course.

https://scontent.fmga3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459263243_26701726312775295_5606673555380897277_n.jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=bd9a62&_nc_ohc=nUXrQwDuRIQQ7kNvgHSZn30&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-2.fna&_nc_gid=AqKBGDz65d6svpCCegQx0l8&oh=00_AYDbOB79QsKO_qZh68IRuT0hvgh657nrlvnvie4C3vFQOQ&oe=66E8F239


Yet another unit, a 1964 Cadillac Series 75 Fleetwood but a Brougham, sold at auction in 2018 for a mere €8,970

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459334870_26701882169426376_7252052727567479685_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=bd9a62&_nc_ohc=aZ0g1hqUKP4Q7kNvgHu6HRr&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=Ap51pvwYIZ6i1ucZN1qrAlJ&oh=00_AYDlgVUax941bQeIUOg0BF-8trCOCSlzZ4KlWfXKYz8Gcg&oe=66E8ED6B

[monkboughtlunch]

I go for the photo to have been taken in the early summer of 1967. And the limo was beautiful. Here is an exact model, different unit of course.

Was the '64 Fleetwood silver in 1967? A 2014 blog post at "Classic Cars Today Online" claims: "During 1966, Elvis had the ’64 Cadillac Fleetwood limousine repainted silver – the color which it remains today, as seen here."

Source: https://www.classiccarstodayonline.com/2023/10/01/if-youre-going-to-dress-up-as-elvis-for-halloween-you-should-know-a-little-about-his-personal-cars/1964-cadillac-fleetwood-limo-elvis-c/

[drjohncarpenter]

Although, Elvis' appearance is not too dissimilar to these candids from July 1967:










Source: https://elvis-collectors.com/candid-central/68car.html

Looks like the very same shades, donnit?

[drjohncarpenter]

Anyway, Ms. Kingsbaker's Facebook page says she went to Miami Palmetto High School. That's located in Miami Dade County in Florida. https://www.facebook.com/patty.kingsbaker/

Has anyone actually messaged Patty Regan Kingsbaker for more details on the Needles gas station encounter? She has a Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/patty.kingsbaker/

So far, all the information is coming 2nd hand from her acquaintance on a blog post--and not directly from her. Presumably, she has much more information that could nail the timeframe.

I identified her high school, graduation year and included the FB link in my original post, along with two other links.

Second comment about who posted the photo on Shorpy I pointed out on page 1 as well.

Do you even read my research?

After 15 posts in less than 24 hours, maybe cool out a little on this, ok?

[Jaime1234]

I go for the photo to have been taken in the early summer of 1967. And the limo was beautiful. Here is an exact model, different unit of course.

Was the '64 Fleetwood silver in 1967? A 2014 blog post at "Classic Cars Today Online" claims: "During 1966, Elvis had the ’64 Cadillac Fleetwood limousine repainted silver – the color which it remains today, as seen here."

Source: https://www.classiccarstodayonline.com/2023/10/01/if-youre-going-to-dress-up-as-elvis-for-halloween-you-should-know-a-little-about-his-personal-cars/1964-cadillac-fleetwood-limo-elvis-c/

Hi!, I had just seen that silver coloured car, and immediately noticed that, if that was the same car, the same model, and the same chassis, which could be the case, then they remodelled it to their own taste as seen in the attached photo, where I have drawn a black circle on the design which in theory, replaced that of the original, in theory.


https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/459316019_26702023356078924_1728118228638227556_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=bd9a62&_nc_ohc=cdLkvWO4XWkQ7kNvgHP30Lz&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=A93XZvNjytaljdcInk3Wd_X&oh=00_AYBBN-sv7yQpbs3nU5BjcJOa-LMyXUz6bJjiLoZFK8S01g&oe=66E8EE86

Either way, had I been given the choice to be gifted a limo from anyone, as long as it was US made AND used by Elvis , I would have chosen, this one, and in this same color, I am referring to Elvis' 1960 Ford Mark V Lincoln Limousine, which has the added distinction of being the Elvis OWNED vehicle which has sold for the most, the sale taking place at a Barrett-Jackson auction in 2006 and hitting the hammer at an incredible $566,500.

With Elvis and the darn snow

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/103808367_4028274317213817_5054570375650421380_n.jpg?_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=hNKxDko24-QQ7kNvgHE7mLE&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&oh=00_AYDySI83G0TSGwGqbH5cgsly_pTeBr5kMO5oVvpp_KpOmw&oe=670AB4C4


Without him but fully visible

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/104118452_4028287787212470_2474657356063282073_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a0f3c3&_nc_ohc=4mmwYz75UpgQ7kNvgGmVjPV&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=A1n8XpY3whOmcqAIkdc3186&oh=00_AYAiBAcak3eaYaIiRevYT4a9gZQBx74n4UMyC7qQZFmvvA&oe=670AB2F3


As to the vehicle Elvis used, and drove ( but did not own, or leased) which sold for the most, that was the 1929 Duesenberg Model J Dual Cowl Phaeton from "Spinout". In January of 2011 the car was sold, at an RM auction FOR US$1.2m.

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/97995261_3898277426880174_8306193285601296384_n.jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a0f3c3&_nc_ohc=jdPJWJUhA0gQ7kNvgHSNTs6&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=AzHascxE0d0_fH0-_KuhV44&oh=00_AYAuDIZ-OUSADBye0njF8kByPMg56hl-SZeplX5t_oT6hw&oe=670AAA94<

Turning to the vehicles which Elvis GIFTED but never drove himself, (there were many which he did give, AFTER driving them and a few he never did drive) the one which sold the most is the one he gifted Ursula Andress in March of 1963. According to Ms. Andress, she kept the car until many years after his death, then sold it to George Barris, who sold it again, until a final buyer, her biggest fan from Switzerland, her country, where she still lives appeared in 2011 and paid U$1.090,000 for it, at a Sotheby's auction

Ursula and the BMW 507, 1958 model Elvis gifted to her

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/121566773_4601089746598935_6809404767359166084_n.jpg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a0f3c3&_nc_ohc=GXW5FADpVZMQ7kNvgElQfu4&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=AX1sITdvgnYy0isfjOSpvMJ&oh=00_AYCbK76E_3Hsd0V0KuS5eTpZQCGp9jirjc0O0rQVX_c8Vw&oe=670AA18C

With George Barris and the BMW 507

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/121569331_4601308356577074_3354457695052692872_n.jpg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=a0f3c3&_nc_ohc=janBZOFF2NsQ7kNvgE_6tG7&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=ANyEOvfZGwp2G5RQGr5SqsA&oh=00_AYBhEVFRoxs9jwbt1cx_VYv_BwRmpb3pQg9lDOdiv78LgQ&oe=670ABF40

At Sotheby's

https://scontent.fmga3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/121533984_4600932379948005_8588275970976004223_n.jpg?_nc_cat=102&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=13d280&_nc_ohc=1nU3moudke0Q7kNvgHZ33h_&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-2.fna&oh=00_AYA4lyW9-IgS965zPbFhFLtz3SDEYRQozPUAC9l6tNITUg&oe=670A9F3D

Finally, the car once used by Elvis, which is estimated to cost the most, is the 1955 pink Cadillac currently at Graceland, as well as (or more precisely as we know the near estimates), the 1957 BMW 507 he used in Germany, which was recently insured by the Oslo Motor Car Show organizers for NK180m (Norwegian Kroner), or US$18m),

With Elvis in Germany, before he painted it red.

https://scontent.fmga3-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/400998890_24191667740447844_6442854059192503286_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=f727a1&_nc_ohc=aTSUlK1KyLMQ7kNvgE1HfK4&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-2.fna&_nc_gid=AZ9aBBZQ-Zo78vQvAip6qy9&oh=00_AYBUvpCWLuxkl2nSnOfJXr0oE7eXJcEU_DOG-IDgGBnK0w&oe=66E91D06

At the Oslo, Norway Motor Show, October 28-31, 2022, restored and back to its original coior, feather white.

https://scontent.fmga3-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317636525_8430723533635518_7102822280075996988_n.jpg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=f727a1&_nc_ohc=Mp26KkuB4nUQ7kNvgH3wGUv&_nc_ht=scontent.fmga3-1.fna&_nc_gid=ACVqBLK-mKBS59mxa4LjvI4&oh=00_AYC7xP-N4cHDUmfJSGGiJXkwrdr1hf9mu4V6TK_Pk1PLEQ&oe=66E8F5AB

The 1955 caddy next to the 2005 Beast https://www.usatoday.com/gcdn/presto/2019/07/18/USAT/d511b1eb-886d-49c6-9178-f91f7a50ec43-AFP_US-JAPAN-BUSH-KOIZUMI-GRACELAND.jpg?crop=3504,1828,x0,y0&width=660&height=345&format=pjpg&auto=webp

[monkboughtlunch]

Looks like the very same shades, donnit?

In my opinion, no. For example, the bridge is different.

bridge.jpg

[drjohncarpenter]

Thanks. Can we all chill out now?

[monkboughtlunch]

I also think that Patty could be anywhere between 13 and 17 given how petite she is, and the fact the quality of photo makes it so hard to tell. I do like a bit of a puzzle/mystery.......

I like a good puzzle/mystery too. Yes, the photo is blurry, but I do think there are enough data points for us to crack this and triangulate a probable timeframe.

You bring up a great point about Patty Regan's physical appearance. Let's examine her height and hair.

First, according to celebheights.com, Priscilla Presley is 5'3". If we compare Priscilla's and Patty's heights in relation to Elvis, it appears that Patty Regan was probably less than 5 feet tall at the time of the Needles gas station photo.

I would be interested to know if this is Patty's full adult height. Because if she was taller by the time of the 1966-1967 school years, that rules out 1966 and 1967.

heightcompare.jpg

If we compare Patty Regan's hair in the Needles photo to her 1966 and 1967 Miami yearbook photos, we see her hair is much shorter in Needles. In my opinion, her short hair in the Needles photo looks like that of a 12 or 13 year old. While the longer hair in the 1966 and 1967 yearbooks seems more consistent with an older, more mature teenager approaching adulthood. Note also that Ms. Regan appears to have lightened her hair for the 1966-1967 school year.

pattyregancompare.jpg

If it's true that Elvis had the Fleetwood repainted silver in 1966, that rules out 1967 and an unknown portion of 1966. And since Patty's hair in the 1966 and 1967 yearbooks are inconsistent (much longer, different style) with her hair in the Needles photo, I think both 1966 and 1967 can logically be ruled out.

[Fish]

It is hard to see but the low slanting sunlight and leafless trees do not seem to indicate summer. Still, it could be a late sunny afternoon but the trees do seem bare, don't they?

[monkboughtlunch]

It is hard to see but the low slanting sunlight and leafless trees do not seem to indicate summer. Still, it could be a late sunny afternoon but the trees do seem bare, don't they?

Excellent points @Fish

The trees on the far right look relatively bare. Is that a Crepe Myrtle tree on the far left? The other trees in this area seem to lack green leaves. There does appear to be some green grass just beyond the white fence.

Another clue to the season is how Patty and Elvis are dressed.

Patty is wearing jeans and what appears to be either a long-sleeved Oxford shirt, blouse or blazer. Looks like her ankles are exposed and she might be wearing penny loafers or similar slip-ons.

Elvis is wearing a dress shirt, a windbreaker style jacket, slacks, boots and a possible leather kidney belt used by motorcyclists.

We can probably rule out the hot summer months. Based on the below weather averages for Needles, CA, I think their clothing seems most consistent with average weather trends from the November - March timeframe.

Does this point to November 1963 - March 1964? Or Does it point to November 1964 - March 1965?

Between the two windows, Elvis apparently wore the exact same jacket in September 1963 at The Memphian -- and wore a similar if not identical belt circa March 1964 on the set of Roustabout.

Based on this, I'm leaning towards the Needles photo being taken during the November 1963 - March 1964 timeframe.

When did Elvis acquire the 1964 Fleetwood? Knowing this could narrow the date down.

needlesweather.jpg

needles2.jpg

[Igotstung]

memphianjacket.jpg

I can't get over the pants, I mean these take the concept of lace up a notch higher. Was this a thing back then or is it just Elvis?

[monkboughtlunch]

memphianjacket.jpg

I can't get over the pants, I mean these take the concept of lace up a notch higher. Was this a thing back then or is it just Elvis?

Good question. Elvis wore similar, if not identical, lace up pants in the below circa November 1963 photo.

Is that a Crepe Myrtle on the far left in the Needles photo? Crepe Myrtles generally bloom from mid-May into autumn. But Elvis and Patty sure don't seem dressed for the hot May to September Needles weather where the temperatures can soar to the upper 90s and even well into the 100s.

So given the possible Crepe Myrtle in bloom and the bare trees in the Needles photo and Elvis' windbreaker, are we looking at an autumn 1963 or autumn 1964 photo?

In autumn 1963, Elvis was filming Kissin' Cousins in the October / November timeframe. And in autumn 1964, Elvis was filming Tickle Me in the October / November timeframe.

kc6.jpg

[drjohncarpenter]

It is hard to see but the low slanting sunlight and leafless trees do not seem to indicate summer. Still, it could be a late sunny afternoon but the trees do seem bare, don't they?

You are correct, it is very hard to see.

All the supposition on this blurry candid is creating an excessive and distracting level of scrutiny.

The established facts and research I present keep it squarely in the summer 1966 or summer 1967 time frame.

If other photos from this meeting surface, then we may delve further.


It's. Just. A. Blurry. Candid. Taken. Over. Fifty-five. Years. Ago.

[monkboughtlunch]

What year was Elvis’ 1964 Cadillac Fleetwood 75 Limo manufactured?

The VIN number for Elvis’ limo is thought to be 64S016270 (per link under "Sources" below). In the 1960s, Cadillac VIN numbers did not include production dates. Assuming this is the correct VIN, what can we learn from this number?

The first two digits, “64,” are the model year, 1964. The third digit, S, means “Fleetwood 75 Limo.” The last six digits are the production number. This suggests the vehicle thought to be Elvis’ limo may have been the 16,270th 1964-model year Cadillac made.

There were only 808 total 1964 model Fleetwood 75 Limos manufactured. Total production of all 1964 model Cadillac body styles is 165,959. Therefore, the limo thought to be Elvis' was apparently in the first 9% of 1964 model year Cadillacs produced (16,270 / 165,959 = 9.8%)

Conclusion: The ‘64 model year Cadillac with VIN 64S016270, apparently used by Elvis, appears to be an earlier production example which may have been manufactured in 1963.

64total.jpg

vindecipher.jpg

Sources:

https://elviscadillacs.tripod.com/index-testing.html

https://6364cadillac.ning.com/m/blogpost?id=6543066%3ABlogPost%3A361&maxDate=2017-12-06T09%3A50%3A01.329Z

https://6364cadillac.ning.com/profiles/blogs/price-and-production-totals?overrideMobileRedirect=1

[drjohncarpenter]

What . . .

You've posted 20 times on this topic I created, in barely 48 hours. Most with huge graphics.

I would really appreciate it if you would CHILL OUT.

You're killing all the goodwill here, and diminishing the hours of original research I gave to the topic.

You are always free to start your own.

Thank you.

[monkboughtlunch]

Observation: In 1963, Elvis wore the same black jacket seen in the "Needles" gas station photo at the Sahara Hotel in Las Vegas, Nevada. Was Elvis ever pictured in the jacket after 1963?

ElvisPresley_26July1963_02-2.jpg

ElvisSignsAutographsSaharaNewsBureau_t610.jpg

0628_LVNB_VintageSahara29.JPG

needles2.jpg

[monkboughtlunch]

Was the black jacket custom-tailored in 1963 by the wardrobe department for the film Viva Las Vegas?

VivaLasVegas01.jpg

vivalasvegas.jpeg

[jurasic1968]

Probably.