Interview med Ernst Jørgensen
I juli måned 2024 havde Alt om Elvis – Jess Møller Rasmussen og Christian Rantsén – en samtale med Ernst omkring hans arbejde i den danske musikbranche, om arbejdet med Elvis-kataloget og ikke mindst lidt om, hvad fremtiden byder på af kommende projekter.
Ernst Jørgensen interview – del 1., publiceret 25. juli 2024. Tryk på play-knappen nedenfor for at høre interviewet.
https://altomelvis.dk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Ernst-podcast-afsnit-1-final.mp3?_=1
Ernst Jørgensen interview – del 2., publiceret 1. august 2024. Tryk på play-knappen nedenfor for at høre interviewet.
https://altomelvis.dk/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Ernst-Podcast-afsnit-2-final-1.mp3?_=2
Ernst Jørgensen interview – del 3., publiceret 7. august 2024. Tryk på play-knappen nedenfor for at høre interviewet.
https://altomelvis.dk/wp-content/uploads/2024/07/Ernst-podcast-afsnit-3-final.mp3?_=3
https://altomelvis.dk/ernst/
What it says there is:
"In July 2024, Alt om Elvis –- Jess Møller Rasmussen and Christian Rantsén –- had a conversation with Ernst about his work in the Danish music industry, about the work with the Elvis catalog and, last but not least, a little about what the future holds for upcoming projects."
Forum member Union Ave took time to listen and summarize in English what was said, but it appears his posts have disappeared.
Ernst has some interesting things to say. So here's 1, 2 and most of 3 once again.
Summary of part 1:
Union Ave wrote: ↑Sun Aug 04, 2024 9:43 pmMy summary of part 1:
The interview starts with Ernst’s pioneering work attempting to document Elvis’ recording sessions. Back in the seventies it was hard, because there was basically no information. He would contact various musicians with a success rate of one out of 10 actually writing back. This was due to various reasons, including wrong addresses. The first real breakthrough happened thanks to RCA boss Rocco Laginestra, who told Joan Deary to answer Ernst’s letters and queries about matrix numbers. Joan was a secretary at the time, and she was somewhat surprised by the order, but she did what she was told and provided the information. Ernst found out that this information was especially enlightening with regards to regular studio session, but not as much for the movie sessions, which got assigned matrix numbers on the date that RCA received them from movie companies like MGM.
The second breakthrough happened when he wrote to Felton Jarvis. His wife Mary wrote back to Ernst on Felton’s behalf. She provided many important details, including musicians, from sessions dating back to ’66 when Felton started working with Elvis. Ernst was thrilled when he got all the relevant information from Elvis’ latest recording sessions, in December ’73 at STAX including the songs that were recorded, right after these sessions took place. So he knew about some of these songs a year before they were released, like ‘Promised Land’. He was told not to share the information yet, which of course he didn't.
The first real book version of ‘Recording Sessions’ (with red cover) came out in 1977. This was actually the third version. They would have Elvis fanclub meetings every Tuesday, and they’d almost finished the book when the news came on the radio that Elvis had died. At the time, RCA was represented in Denmark by Hede Nielsen, and Ernst went to one of their conventions where he gave some copies to their representative, Ole Joachimsen, who was impressed with the book and had great plans for it, which never came to fruition.
In the 80’s Ernst got into the music business, where he learned all the basics like accounting, budgets, royalties, copyrights, and so on. The company he worked for at the time was Polydor. He got a lot of freedom, showed that he was a resourceful guy, and quickly became product manager. A big part of that job was accounting and making monthly reports. After a couple of years, he started his own company, but three years later he concluded that it wasn’t working. When he started looking for jobs, he had two solid options: Warner or RCA, and he chose the latter. RCA became BMG in 1986, and for three years he had a German manager whom he couldn’t get along with. This ended with a discussion, where that boss said: “Why are you even doing this work? You are somebody who loves making records”. At the time, Ernst was too angry to see that this comment was actually true. He then started working for the American division.
In 1990, there was an international meeting, and at the very end he made the comment. “Why are we doing such a poor job on the Elvis Presley releases? There is a far greater potential there”. Ernst acknowledges that it was perhaps not an appropriate comment to make, but blames it on his passion. But the reaction he got was: “Well, if you’re so smart, then why don’t you do it”. Ernst became part of an Elvis committee together with a.o. Roger Semon, Klaus Schmalenbach (BMG catalogue) and Don Wardell (boss Elvis releases BMG).
There was a meeting in Paris together with a.o. four representatives from the Estate, including Jack Soden. This little woman came in, and it was Priscilla. She expressed a desire to work together and see what they could do for Elvis’ music. She then played them a recording and wanted to know whether it was Elvis. It was ‘My Happiness’, and Ernst knew that it was him. This led to a meeting in Memphis in the beginning of ’91. There were about 30 people present, including various lawyers. The theme of the meeting was what they were going to do in the coming years. Ernst was asked to hold a presentation, and it was here that he presented his idea for a 50’s masters box-set. He felt that this would be a best-seller. There was some enthusiasm. However, Todd Morgan of the Estate presented an alternate idea, suggesting a five CD box-set covering his entire career. He felt that this would be a better and more commercial way to present Elvis. There was real enthusiasm for that idea as well. Ernst started looking around the room, and noticed that some of his colleagues were looking down. His initial thought was: “I blew it!”. Jack Soden then said: “Well, Todd, that’s a very good idea, but I want to go with Priscilla’s opinion, and she told me that she wants to start with the young Elvis. We want people to remember who Elvis really was. So we want to go with Ernst’s idea”.
“So I was saved by Jack Soden!”, Ernst says.
They started discussing the Colonel Parker collection, which had just been acquired by the Estate. Ernst knew that the Colonel kept everything, and he asked Soden whether he could get access. Soden was positive but inquired why. Ernst answered that it would be a good idea to get Elvis a lot of new Gold Records, and that unfortunately RCA records had made a mess of it. They didn’t have the precise numbers from before 1975, the year where they started using computers. Some people were sent down to document everything, and indeed the Colonel had detailed documentation and receipts from RCA Records from February 1956 onwards. This led to many albums getting their sales numbers upgraded in 1992.
When work started on the 50’s set, the company really had very little idea. The budget was limited, and Ernst and Roger had limited control over design or packaging, even though they did provide photos. When the project was near completion, those in charge were surprised / impressed and sales expectations went from 10,000 to 20,000. Presales ended up being 100,000 copies. Up to now Ernst had worked on this project for free, and Roger had just been fired, but both were now offered a contract for three years in the summer of ’92. This was a relief to them both. However, Mike Omansky became their new boss which wasn’t always easy, because he was all about cutting expenses. But they did pretty good with their releases, which all sold at least 100, 000 copies. ‘If Every Day Was Like Christmas’ even sold 2 million copies. Much to the surprise of the company. Ernst states that Americans just didn’t understand Elvis at the time, and still don’t. He will never get a Grammy or any other industry prize, and Ernst blames this on an ‘elite’ sort of disdain for Elvis which has always been there. And Elvis knew it, too. He’d say, “Them people up in New York…”, which was true.
# 1 Hits was another idea coming from Ernst, “borrowed” of course from the very similar Beatles album. A Sony executive had told him: “Never do the perfect, ultimate Greatest Hits compilation, because it will harm the catalogue”. The album ended up selling 6 million copies in the USA alone, and double that worldwide.
Summary of part 2:
Union Ave wrote: ↑Thu Aug 01, 2024 7:34 pmIt’s a fascinating listen. Ernst talks about the shock of the discovery of the first two acetates, especially ‘My Happiness’. And finding 16 tapes in a forgotten cabinet in Vernon’s office by coincidence. He was there together with Guralnick doing research for the book.
Finding ‘Shake Rattle & Roll’ and ‘Lawdy Miss Clawdy’, not in the vaults, but in a closed room behind the studio after a vault keeper complained that tapes sometimes did not get returned. Ernst gained the guy’s respect by making these finds, and this led to other finds, including outtakes of ‘Blue Moon’.
He found certain radio station recordings like ‘Fool, Fool, Fool’ in a drawer at RCA, which Joan Deary received from a disc jockey and were subsequently forgotten about after she retired.
Some of these stories have been out before, but I don’t recall reading them with the same kind of detail.
In Indianapolis, he worked together with vault keeper Wendell Davis on finding tapes, which led to the discovery of the ‘Fun In Acapulco’ outtakes. He also found the tape-boxes for the ‘Follow That Dream’ stereo masters, but there were no tapes inside. When he started looking for tapes that went missing, he found out that they had one thing in common: they were all sent to Los Angeles, and went missing during the period that Joan Deary worked there. This led to him getting on touch with some dubious characters who had these tapes and were willing to sell them. They were able to purchase most of these back, until the record company stopped it. They found it problematic that they were buying back their own tapes from dubious people, and also balked at the costs involved. But Ernst is confident that they got all the important stuff, including the ‘Elvis Is Back’ outtakes. Some stuff did get in the hands of collectors, but mostly soundboards that we already know. Deary sometimes made multiple copies of certain soundboards (5 or 6 copies, “a bit puzzling” he says) and some of this ended up on pirate releases.
Ernst says that they are still on the look-out for unreleased material, but adds that he doesn’t expect to find anything significant anymore and explains why.
He also explains some of the problems they encounter with the tapes they do find. Some of it is very poor quality and basically unlistenable, for example a Hayride performance where Elvis sings ‘Maybelline’ and ‘That’s All Right’, and adds that the quality is so bad that it’s basically impossible to identify the performances.
Ernst also talks about the problem with some of the movie tapes from companies like MGM, which have Elvis on one channel and the band on the other. He expects that with the developments in technology they make be able to remix them in a way that makes these recordings more enjoyable. He is however a bit cautious with new technology. When asked whether new technology could improve recordings like Hawaii ’61 (recent Beatles releases are mentioned), he answers that the Beatles have some of the best technicians available, and besides, it would be hard to remove the distortion from the Hawaii ’61 recording. He also points towards budget restraints, and that the Beatles have more “room to move” in that respect. There is a brief mention of mono recordings being turned into stereo, and he knows that there are already some people experimenting with it who cannot do everything. He is not certain yet whether the label wants to do that, even though he doesn’t rule it out. Ernst says that there have been various parties that have offered them their services. He feels that the ones that are credible are too expensive at this point, and cites a figure of $10,000 per master.
The 25th anniversary of FTD is discussed, and its beginnings. He says that it was hard to beat the pirate releases, and adds that it’s really expensive and complicated to pursue them in court. They then decided: “If you can’t beat them, then join them”. He said that the fanclubs served a purpose because of the distribution that they already had in place.
There’s a question about any problems with the main label with regards to FTD and he answers that there are none, and with a laugh adds: “We send them a check once a year, and money talks”.
‘The Boy from Tupelo’ is discussed, and Ernst says that he started working on it in 1992. He credits Peter Guralnick and especially Brian Petersen. He says that Brian was a great help, who taught Ernst how to look in local archives. Ernst adds that Brian’s death last year was a great loss. He is asked whether there will be an upgrade of the book, and he answers that it’s unlikely due to the costs involved. He also briefly mentions ‘that Norwegian crook’ with a laugh.
Summary of part 3:
Union Ave wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:42 pmHe says he could sit down and listen through the EIC tapes together with his favorite mixing engineer Matt Ross Spang to see, “what do we have, and what can we do, and what freedoms can we take”. There’s a lot of considerations when you start mixing, he says, and adds that “Matt is really good at making Elvis’ voice sound better than it did on the original records. That’s my view”. “So what you do is, you sit down and you experiment a bit. We cannot change anything, nor do we want to change anything”. You cannot drown Elvis’ voice in tons of reverb, to give an example. “You start planning and working on it, until it’s a much better record”. He says that it would be nice to do something on ‘Elvis In Concert’ together with the Estate and Authentic Image Brands: “now we are going to release the lot”. But those discussions haven’t taken place yet.
Union Ave wrote: ↑Wed Aug 07, 2024 9:42 pmErnst is asked whether he will do a new edition of ‘A Life In Music’. “Pål Granlund wants me to do it, but I just don’t think so. The book was good in 1998, and it still stands today. Everything that’s important is in there. Of course, there’s a lot more information on the sessions and outtakes since then. Just look at Keith Flynn’s book, which is impractical to read but quite detailed”. “There’s been rumors saying that Joe Tunzi will do another one, but he’s been saying that for 10 years. He’s working on it together with Daryl Restly… By the way, does that guy even exist? But he keeps digging up new stuff and so does Keith, as well as others. But a book listing all the outtakes and what releases they are on… I don’t want to do that. That’s too dull. I don’t think I could improve upon my own book from ’98. I’m pleased with it. It’s about the story that it tells. But of course I’m always thrilled whenever someone digs up some new information”.
