Elvis's Cause of Death Reexamined

[fecc-mechanic]

Medically speaking, the theory holds very little water. I'll always be the first to say "anything is possible".

However, the etiology of the disorder isn't described accurately in the article. Dr. Tennant cherry-picks symptoms that fit, and conveniently leaves out others that do not. Certainly not the expected behavior of a diagnostician/clinician of Dr. Tennant's usual impeccable stature.

It also takes a lot more than a mild/moderate blow to the head (which to cause the action described would have to almost certainly involve a massive open skull fracture). Such a fracture never occurred. A concussion, did. The mechanism of injury in Elvis' case, again, does not adequately account for what Dr. Tennant claims occurred.

With that said, there is an inherent genetic involvement,for certain, on Elvis' maternal side of the family... But not in a new and earth-shattering manner.

Edited to say: I've added some further thoughts, above and below. The above post was written after being awake for wayyyy too long. So some fixes had to be made.

Anywho... Reading "between the lines" of the various articles that have been published ---------- it almost seems like Dr. Tennant is trying to give Elvis the primary diagnosis of a Centralized Pain Syndrome (CPS), without necessarily coming right out and saying so. In some, the CPS diagnosis is secondary to the auto-immune disorder, in others it is primary. It is hinted in some of the articles more strongly than others... While the only treatment algorithm for such a disorder (then, and still now) is massive amounts of opiate pain meds - and even then, such meds are hardly effective in treating the pain ---- Elvis most certainly did not suffer from such a disorder. What differs from a normal chronic pain diagnosis - is that there is no "fixing" it by traditional means, only managing the symptoms over the course of a lifetime. Very little is known about CPS, still, but enough is known to know that it is a highly unlikely fit in EP's case. Phantom Limb Pain (Though, not necessarily falling under the CPS umbrella) experienced by amputees is a good descriptor of the type of neurological mayhem that CPS patients go through. While PLP is transient, CPS is almost always life-long.

Generally speaking, CPS is triggered by a handful of events. Parkinsons, MS, Malignant/Non-Malignant brain tumors, and massive brain and/or spinal cord injuries. It again must be re-iterated that the type of brain injury spoken of is the type of brain injury one experiences from a significant traumatic even (Automobile crash with open/closed head injury, blunt force from a fall of a minimum of 15feet, getting beaten about the head with a baseball bat, etc). As in Elvis' case, a concussion (or even 100) with absolutely no significant associated structural trauma or cerebral edema WILL NOT account for, or lead to a CPS diagnosis.

Dr. Tennant hints at EP suffering from Centralized Pain Disorder in the below article:

http://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/other/brain-injury/elvis-presley-head-trauma-autoimmunity-pain-early-death

"...stemmed from multiple head injuries that led to an autoimmune inflammatory disorder with subsequent central pain. His terminal event was cardiac arrhythmia, underpinned by drug abuse".

Of note, regarding hypogammaglobulinemia which Dr. Tennant states as significant in almost all of the articles ----- notice the addition at the bottom of this image from the above article:


The significance is that the post-mortem sample (With 1970's tech) can certainly raise the question of hypogammaglobulinemia - If the sample showed a significantly decreased level of immunoglobulin-A, Immunoglobulin-M, and Immunoglobulin-G. However, Elvis' levels were within normal range. Dr. Tennant tries to say that since they were within the "lower limits of normal" that these findings are significant. They are not. And they are not "Consistent with a chronic disease state".

That would be like saying someone with a sodium level within the lower limits of normal is suffering from hyponatremia... Doesn't work that way.

Hi Jordan

...

Good evening!

Sent from my LG-ls990 using Tapatalk

[fecc-mechanic]

I've updated my above post with some thoughts, and have also now cast doubt on the hypogammaglobulinemia theory floated by Dr. Tennant , by utilizing the same "evidence" he cites.

[matilda]

I'm not sure why, after forty years, any of this matters. Even if Elvis was found to have died from something completely unrelated to drugs (which I don't believe for a minute), it wouldn't matter. The drugs-as-cause-of-death story is out there now and has been for decades, and nothing is going to change that from being what is written down in history. Elvis took drugs, he abused drugs, and he knew he was doing it. He nearly died from doing so on more than one occasion prior to his death in 1977. Trying to come up with some cock-a-hoop weird and wonderful tale that something else was the main reason for his desire is, frankly, bonkers.

On a straightforward practical note. You can't re-examine a death in this way without re-examining a body.

Didn't they exhumed the body of napoleon to investigate if he was poisoned? they did.
It's good that they don't do that with elvis.

[MountainMisst]

Medically speaking, the theory holds very little water. I'll always be the first to say "anything is possible".

However, the etiology of the disorder isn't described accurately in the article. Dr. Tennant cherry-picks symptoms that fit, and conveniently leaves out others that do not. Certainly not the expected behavior of a diagnostician/clinician of Dr. Tennant's usual impeccable stature.

It also takes a lot more than a mild/moderate blow to the head (which to cause the action described would have to almost certainly involve a massive open skull fracture). Such a fracture never occurred. A concussion, did. The mechanism of injury in Elvis' case, again, does not adequately account for what Dr. Tennant claims occurred.

With that said, there is an inherent genetic involvement,for certain, on Elvis' maternal side of the family... But not in a new and earth-shattering manner.

Edited to say: I've added some further thoughts, above and below. The above post was written after being awake for wayyyy too long. So some fixes had to be made.

Anywho... Reading "between the lines" of the various articles that have been published ---------- it almost seems like Dr. Tennant is trying to give Elvis the primary diagnosis of a Centralized Pain Syndrome (CPS), without necessarily coming right out and saying so. In some, the CPS diagnosis is secondary to the auto-immune disorder, in others it is primary. It is hinted in some of the articles more strongly than others... While the only treatment algorithm for such a disorder (then, and still now) is massive amounts of opiate pain meds - and even then, such meds are hardly effective in treating the pain ---- Elvis most certainly did not suffer from such a disorder. What differs from a normal chronic pain diagnosis - is that there is no "fixing" it by traditional means, only managing the symptoms over the course of a lifetime. Very little is known about CPS, still, but enough is known to know that it is a highly unlikely fit in EP's case. Phantom Limb Pain (Though, not necessarily falling under the CPS umbrella) experienced by amputees is a good descriptor of the type of neurological mayhem that CPS patients go through. While PLP is transient, CPS is almost always life-long.

Generally speaking, CPS is triggered by a handful of events. Parkinsons, MS, Malignant/Non-Malignant brain tumors, and massive brain and/or spinal cord injuries. It again must be re-iterated that the type of brain injury spoken of is the type of brain injury one experiences from a significant traumatic even (Automobile crash with open/closed head injury, blunt force from a fall of a minimum of 15feet, getting beaten about the head with a baseball bat, etc). As in Elvis' case, a concussion (or even 100) with absolutely no significant associated structural trauma or cerebral edema WILL NOT account for, or lead to a CPS diagnosis.

Dr. Tennant hints at EP suffering from Centralized Pain Disorder in the below article:

http://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/other/brain-injury/elvis-presley-head-trauma-autoimmunity-pain-early-death

"...stemmed from multiple head injuries that led to an autoimmune inflammatory disorder with subsequent central pain. His terminal event was cardiac arrhythmia, underpinned by drug abuse".

Of note, regarding hypogammaglobulinemia which Dr. Tennant states as significant in almost all of the articles ----- notice the addition at the bottom of this image from the above article:


The significance is that the post-mortem sample (With 1970's tech) can certainly raise the question of hypogammaglobulinemia - If the sample showed a significantly decreased level of immunoglobulin-A, Immunoglobulin-M, and Immunoglobulin-G. However, Elvis' levels were within normal range. Dr. Tennant tries to say that since they were within the "lower limits of normal" that these findings are significant. They are not. And they are not "Consistent with a chronic disease state".

That would be like saying someone with a sodium level within the lower limits of normal is suffering from hyponatremia... Doesn't work that way.

Hi Jordan

The article is the one above, or are there more?

If so, do you have the article/s that you refer to, that Dr Tennant published, that you can post here, please?

Thank you

[fecc-mechanic]

Medically speaking, the theory holds very little water. I'll always be the first to say "anything is possible".

However, the etiology of the disorder isn't described accurately in the article. Dr. Tennant cherry-picks symptoms that fit, and conveniently leaves out others that do not. Certainly not the expected behavior of a diagnostician/clinician of Dr. Tennant's usual impeccable stature.

It also takes a lot more than a mild/moderate blow to the head (which to cause the action described would have to almost certainly involve a massive open skull fracture). Such a fracture never occurred. A concussion, did. The mechanism of injury in Elvis' case, again, does not adequately account for what Dr. Tennant claims occurred.

With that said, there is an inherent genetic involvement,for certain, on Elvis' maternal side of the family... But not in a new and earth-shattering manner.

Edited to say: I've added some further thoughts, above and below. The above post was written after being awake for wayyyy too long. So some fixes had to be made.

Anywho... Reading "between the lines" of the various articles that have been published ---------- it almost seems like Dr. Tennant is trying to give Elvis the primary diagnosis of a Centralized Pain Syndrome (CPS), without necessarily coming right out and saying so. In some, the CPS diagnosis is secondary to the auto-immune disorder, in others it is primary. It is hinted in some of the articles more strongly than others... While the only treatment algorithm for such a disorder (then, and still now) is massive amounts of opiate pain meds - and even then, such meds are hardly effective in treating the pain ---- Elvis most certainly did not suffer from such a disorder. What differs from a normal chronic pain diagnosis - is that there is no "fixing" it by traditional means, only managing the symptoms over the course of a lifetime. Very little is known about CPS, still, but enough is known to know that it is a highly unlikely fit in EP's case. Phantom Limb Pain (Though, not necessarily falling under the CPS umbrella) experienced by amputees is a good descriptor of the type of neurological mayhem that CPS patients go through. While PLP is transient, CPS is almost always life-long.

Generally speaking, CPS is triggered by a handful of events. Parkinsons, MS, Malignant/Non-Malignant brain tumors, and massive brain and/or spinal cord injuries. It again must be re-iterated that the type of brain injury spoken of is the type of brain injury one experiences from a significant traumatic even (Automobile crash with open/closed head injury, blunt force from a fall of a minimum of 15feet, getting beaten about the head with a baseball bat, etc). As in Elvis' case, a concussion (or even 100) with absolutely no significant associated structural trauma or cerebral edema WILL NOT account for, or lead to a CPS diagnosis.

Dr. Tennant hints at EP suffering from Centralized Pain Disorder in the below article:

http://www.practicalpainmanagement.com/pain/other/brain-injury/elvis-presley-head-trauma-autoimmunity-pain-early-death

"...stemmed from multiple head injuries that led to an autoimmune inflammatory disorder with subsequent central pain. His terminal event was cardiac arrhythmia, underpinned by drug abuse".

Of note, regarding hypogammaglobulinemia which Dr. Tennant states as significant in almost all of the articles ----- notice the addition at the bottom of this image from the above article:


The significance is that the post-mortem sample (With 1970's tech) can certainly raise the question of hypogammaglobulinemia - If the sample showed a significantly decreased level of immunoglobulin-A, Immunoglobulin-M, and Immunoglobulin-G. However, Elvis' levels were within normal range. Dr. Tennant tries to say that since they were within the "lower limits of normal" that these findings are significant. They are not. And they are not "Consistent with a chronic disease state".

That would be like saying someone with a sodium level within the lower limits of normal is suffering from hyponatremia... Doesn't work that way.

Hi Jordan

The article is the one above, or are there more?

If so, do you have the article/s that you refer to, that Dr Tennant published, that you can post here, please?

Thank you

Hi misst,
I meant other than the op's article, which is Huffington post.
It must be noted that the huff article unintentionally quotes Dr. Forrest Tennant's name as Torrent. I'm guilty of the same. That's auto correct for you.

https://www.google.com/search?q=f.+Tennant+Elvis&oq=f.+Tennant+Elvis

Sent from my LG-ls990 using Tapatalk

[James27]

And what about Lyme disease? "Provides" a patient with chronic (especially lower) back pains, headaches, blurry and otherwise impaired vision, hormonal imbalances (low cortisol/acth for example, requiring corticoids which damage the pituitary gland through the mechanism of negative feedback causing patient to having to continue taking this drug in order to stay alive), incredible fatigue/exhaustion, constant inflammation (causing pain), liver disease (non alcoholic and non viral hepatitis), collagenic colitis (inflammation of the collagene of the intestins), neurological concentration/memory problems, mood-swings, blood pressure problems (uncontrollable sometimes)... just for starters. Sounds nice, doesn't it. What if Elvis was bitten by a TICK ?

Or maybe he wasn't at all.

There was a TV program some time ago (Channel4) which investigated Elvis' DNA. "Famous DNA". You can find it on the demonoid site anyway. Anybody here saw it? The conclusion was that Elvis' death was (supposedly) unevitable. He had heart disease (genetic).

Here ya go: http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/dead-famous-dna-5-things-3393108

I'm not inclined to speak out pro or contra this conclusion. But it is an interesting concept.

[fecc-mechanic]

And what about Lyme disease? "Provides" a patient with chronic (especially lower) back pains, headaches, blurry and otherwise impaired vision, hormonal imbalances (low cortisol/acth for example, requiring corticoids which damage the pituitary gland through the mechanism of negative feedback causing patient to having to continue taking this drug in order to stay alive), incredible fatigue/exhaustion, constant inflammation (causing pain), liver disease (non alcoholic and non viral hepatitis), collagenic colitis (inflammation of the collagene of the intestins), neurological concentration/memory problems, mood-swings, blood pressure problems (uncontrollable sometimes)... just for starters. Sounds nice, doesn't it. What if Elvis was bitten by a TICK ?

Or maybe he wasn't at all.

There was a TV program some time ago (Channel4) which investigated Elvis' DNA. "Famous DNA". You can find it on the demonoid site anyway. Anybody here saw it? The conclusion was that Elvis' death was (supposedly) unevitable. He had heart disease (genetic).

Here ya go: http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/dead-famous-dna-5-things-3393108

I'm not inclined to speak out pro or contra this conclusion. But it is an interesting concept.

I like your way of thinking, sir, regarding the Lyme disease!
Those are all valid symptoms, which match up to EP for the most part. The only thing that seriously invalidates Lyme, is the onset/appearance. It is rather sudden, as opposed to a gradual onset. In other words, EP [and his practioner(s)] would have known something serious was up almost immediately.

Sent from my LG-ls990 using Tapatalk

[BobDylan]

I'm not sure why, after forty years, any of this matters. Even if Elvis was found to have died from something completely unrelated to drugs (which I don't believe for a minute), it wouldn't matter. The drugs-as-cause-of-death story is out there now and has been for decades, and nothing is going to change that from being what is written down in history. Elvis took drugs, he abused drugs, and he knew he was doing it. He nearly died from doing so on more than one occasion prior to his death in 1977. Trying to come up with some cock-a-hoop weird and wonderful tale that something else was the main reason for his desire is, frankly, bonkers.

On a straightforward practical note. You can't re-examine a death in this way without re-examining a body.

Didn't they exhumed the body of napoleon to investigate if he was poisoned? they did.
It's good that they don't do that with elvis.

I don't think his body was exhumed. They took samples of his hair that had been collected post mortem. I seem to remember also that samples of his wall paper were tested to find out if they contained traces of poison. I believe this was discussed in one of Dr. Thomas Noguchi's book, either Coroner or Coroner At Large.

[Matthew]

A troll? That what he keeps calling me

1) Observing behaviour is not the same as name calling. ("You are trolling" vs. "You are a troll!")

2) It is unfathomable how anyone in their right mind would think YOU would troll the forum! Unfathomable!

[ICanHelp]

Scary that there are likely participants in this thread who will spout this nonsense to friends and family as excuses for Elvis' demise.

That is frightening! I don't know how I am going to sleep tonight. Talk about an Elvis bubble.

[Scarre]

Scary that there are likely participants in this thread who will spout this nonsense to friends and family as excuses for Elvis' demise.

That is frightening! I don't know how I am going to sleep tonight. Talk about an Elvis bubble.

It's a catastrophe!

[Scarre]

A troll? That what he keeps calling me

1) Observing behaviour is not the same as name calling. ("You are trolling" vs. "You are a troll!")

2) It is unfathomable how anyone in their right mind would think YOU would troll the forum! Unfathomable!

I apologize. You are right...you always are. In my hopeless fight for members to enjoy"substandard" quality, well "below standards" I just might, might have crossed the line unintentionally...but so have you and alot of others.

Anyway, I apologize.

[Matthew]

Truly, truly perplexing!

You've been wronged for far too long!

[MountainMisst]

Neither irony or sarcasm is argument.

I'd be more concerned that our children did not have empathy and care towards their fellow human being. If something is wrong, they ask why, they communicate, openly, children who love animals and reach out to help a stranger, if needed, should be the ideal, not this horrible way the world is going. We teach by example, for instance, caring about others - we are setting our children up for happiness, we are enabling them to be strong, and capable within themselves, they are able to make their own wise judgements on what is placed before them. Not be dictated towards.

What is the most important? Learning to be the best person they can be by (imperfect as we all are) example.

Being open, intelligent, with an enquiring mind is exactly how children should be, to enable them to make informed decisions in their lives and not follow, for example, blindly, what our politicians, on behalf of the oligarchy, sprout.

Digging appears to be the carry on after Jordan's post - I respect Jordan; however, his original rebuttal to me, which he removed (on skin rashes being a definite symptom) was incorrect. I feel sickened by this subject, reading the autopsy, etc., so I am not keen to keep going, due to that fact, as well as, people here, don't have open minds, they don't want to discuss, they want to just be "right" and then use unbecoming tactics to keep where they'd like to be in the discussion. An open mind, and being kind, means you are growing as a person.

These silly digs (going on for days) reflect on how one feels about oneself, not who that person is digging towards.

One shouldn't feel stimulated by running another down, it is unhealthy for you.

Please go love your partner - if you can't, love yourself, that is what is good for you.

[Scarre]

Truly, truly perplexing!

You've been wronged for far too long!

You think? But anyway, far be it for me to criticizes someone for liking a certain song...repeatedly over and over again.
But that is just me, others are not that liberal.

Again, I apologize...
Edited:
Don't want to risk breaking the rules. There are members here that repeatedly report just about anything...and I'm not talking about you, Matthew.

[epf]

And what about Lyme disease? "Provides" a patient with chronic (especially lower) back pains, headaches, blurry and otherwise impaired vision, hormonal imbalances (low cortisol/acth for example, requiring corticoids which damage the pituitary gland through the mechanism of negative feedback causing patient to having to continue taking this drug in order to stay alive), incredible fatigue/exhaustion, constant inflammation (causing pain), liver disease (non alcoholic and non viral hepatitis), collagenic colitis (inflammation of the collagene of the intestins), neurological concentration/memory problems, mood-swings, blood pressure problems (uncontrollable sometimes)... just for starters. Sounds nice, doesn't it. What if Elvis was bitten by a TICK ?

Or maybe he wasn't at all.

There was a TV program some time ago (Channel4) which investigated Elvis' DNA. "Famous DNA". You can find it on the demonoid site anyway. Anybody here saw it? The conclusion was that Elvis' death was (supposedly) unevitable. He had heart disease (genetic).

Here ya go: http://www.mirror.co.uk/tv/tv-news/dead-famous-dna-5-things-3393108

I'm not inclined to speak out pro or contra this conclusion. But it is an interesting concept.

I like your way of thinking, sir, regarding the Lyme disease!
Those are all valid symptoms, which match up to EP for the most part. The only thing that seriously invalidates Lyme, is the onset/appearance. It is rather sudden, as opposed to a gradual onset. In other words, EP [and his practioner(s)] would have known something serious was up almost immediately.

Sent from my LG-ls990 using Tapatalk

That does not have to be the case. My mother is diagnosed wit Lyme and it had a slow onset. Lyme can attack in stealth.

[Matthew]

far be it for me to criticizes someone for liking a certain song...repeatedly over and over again.

You see what you want to see, too often this doesn't share shelf-space with reality though.

[MountainMisst]

I don't belong here

Ta taaaaaaaas darlings (as the comedian says, lol)

[Scarre]

far be it for me to criticizes someone for liking a certain song...repeatedly over and over again.

You see what you want to see, too often this doesn't share shelf-space with reality though.

A minor comment, if you don't mind. When was the last time that you really wished someone to enjoy the music of a, according to your standards, and I'm using your words here, "horrible" or "doesn't add to the legacy" song?

[Matthew]

I have never said anyone could not, or should not ENJOY listening to anything, so your question is kinda irrelevant.

[Scarre]

I have never said anyone could not, or should not ENJOY listening to anything, so your question is kinda irrelevant.

No, don´t believe you have, but...my question was...when have you really wished someone to enjoy a "lesser" song?
It is, obviously, ok to dislike a song. But instead of only disliking it, and almost blaming someone for liking that song...how about disliking that song, and for whatever the reason, but then, once in a while, wish that those who do like it, enjoy the song?
I´m not sure if I´m being clear enough here, and if not, the fault is all mine...the point being;
Why, when critizising a song, a performance or whatever, constantly keep that negative mode on.
Would this place not be more fun to visit if the tone in the responses where positive, even if the song according to the reply "doesn´t add to the legacy"?

You know, like... "I think this song stinks and can´t believe he recorded it. But if you like it, enjoy the song. It´s what is was meant to do."
Something like this, perhaps?...saying like it is, with a bit of a positive twist...and "respect"?

[Matthew]

I have written plenty of positive commentary on Elvis' music. If some get their feelings hurt because they can't handle straight up, honest criticism of a song that is not my problem. There is no need to qualify a critique with "but if you enjoy it, then enjoy it" because I have never mocked anyone for enjoying a song. If I have, find it and I will address it and/or apologise for it!

I enjoy many songs Elvis cut that artistically are simply not up to snuff. It is unavoidable. Elvis produced a MOUNTAIN of mediocre material, perhaps half of his overall lifetime output. It is what it is, but I am never going to elevate mediocrity to make myself, or anyone else feel better about enjoying a song.

That some focus most of their energy on Elvis' lesser material and seek to make it out to be greatness is not down to me, but I will argue otherwise as I see fit. This forum is (thankfully) not one of those puff-piece fan sites that worship the ground Elvis walked upon. This place most of the time is for serious, honest, sometimes frank discussion, which is why it is so popular, and stands apart from the rest.

[Arvis Paisley]

If Elvis never had a head injury, do you think he would have recorded My Boy?

(Couldn't resist)

[Scarre]

I have written plenty of positive commentary on Elvis' music. If some get their feelings hurt because they can't handle straight up, honest criticism of a song that is not my problem. There is no need to qualify a critique with "but if you enjoy it, then enjoy it" because I have never mocked anyone for enjoying a song. If I have, find it and I will address it and/or apologise for it!


I never said you have, and I don´t think you are saying I did.

I enjoy many songs Elvis cut that artistically are simply not up to snuff. It is unavoidable. Elvis produced a MOUNTAIN of mediocre material, perhaps half of his overall lifetime output. It is what it is, but I am never going to elevate mediocrity to make myself, or anyone else feel better about enjoying a song.


I see I´m not getting through here. It´s not about elevating anything. It´s about showing respect, if you will, for someone who likes/love that certain song.
Say it sucks, or that it is below his standards, but perhaps also say they (who likes it) should enjoy it...end the post with a positive tone.

That some focus most of their energy on Elvis' lesser material and seek to make it out to be greatness is not down to me, but I will argue otherwise as I see fit.

Fine, everything ok...but why not sometime argue for those who like that "lesser" material? Not the material it self, but to say "you like it, I´m glad you do". Why is that so hard? It doesn´t mean you agree with them or that you have to change your mind. It would just make this place more positive, and you can´t have too much of that.

This forum is (thankfully) not one of those puff-piece fan sites that worship the ground Elvis walked upon. This place most of the time is for serious, honest, sometimes frank discussion,

Agreed, but why has it to be done in a negative manner?

which is why it is so popular, and stands apart from the rest.

[Matthew]

It's pretty high and mighty of you to be instructing me how I should craft my posts. How's about coming down from that pedestal.