Suspicious Minds in Aloha

[drjohncarpenter]

Few, if any, ever set the bar as high as Elvis Presley did in 1968... aside from Elvis himself.

It never ends. In the real world, the answer is far more than a "few."

But you have fun with your fantasy.

[Hard Rocker]

Yadda, yadda, yadda.

[GERRY]

Obviously Elvis chose to sing "It's Impossible" because he liked it and it was a recent hit of 1971, top ten US and 4 UK. It was also covered by Robert Goulet. Check out the album It's Impossible, Did Elvis own a copy of this? I am not a Perry Como fan and i never listen to him, just mentioning the track listing of that album. And the song was grammy nominated. I do not think one can write it off as a MOR throwaway boring song like maybe they are suggesting that it is. Im just trying to work out why Elvis would include it, yes it is a strange choice even for Elvis. But why, it didnt even fit in with the smooth running of the song list for the concert? Hmm very strange.

Or is it, i guess Elvis considered it a nice love song at that time and it has meaningful lyrics. Like Old Shep perhaps. Although Old Shep held an extra special place in Elvis heart and had been good to him in the past in 1945 and 1951. I like Old Shep always have. And i love that Elvis at the very first moments of success and at his wildest , didn't forget it and recorded it, isn't that great. Elvis sang these songs purely because he liked them, even if they didn't fit the setlist of a concert.

Well at least Elvis didn't come out wearing a sweater warbling Maaaaaaggggic Moooooooments..

[drjohncarpenter]

Obviously Elvis chose to sing "It's Impossible" because he liked it and it was a recent hit of 1971, top ten US and 4 UK. It was also covered by Robert Goulet. Check out the album It's Impossible, Did Elvis own a copy of this? I am not a Perry Como fan and i never listen to him, just mentioning the track listing of that album. And the song was grammy nominated. I do not think one can write it off as a MOR throwaway boring song like maybe they are suggesting that it is. Im just trying to work out why Elvis would include it, yes it is a strange choice even for Elvis. But why, it didnt even fit in with the smooth running of the song list for the concert? Hmm very strange.

Or is it, i guess Elvis considered it a nice love song at that time and it has meaningful lyrics. Like Old Shep perhaps. Although Old Shep held an extra special place in Elvis heart and had been good to him in the past in 1945 and 1951. I like Old Shep always have. And i love that Elvis at the very first moments of success and at his wildest , didn't forget it and recorded it, isn't that great. Elvis sang these songs purely because he liked them, even if they didn't fit the setlist of a concert.

Well at least Elvis didn't come out wearing a sweater warbling Maaaaaaggggic Moooooooments..

If there was any question regarding the worthiness of "It's Impossible" you just answered it.

GOOO-LAY!

[GERRY]

No i disagree, in 1968 Elvis set the bar so high, even by his standards.

Have Others can set the bar high? YES obviously.

But that 68 Special is on a whole higher level. What am i suggesting, i am suggesting that it is a one off never to be repeated level that not even Elvis could repeat.

[drjohncarpenter]

No i disagree, in 1968 Elvis set the bar so high, even by his standards.

Have Others can set the bar high? YES obviously.

But that 68 Special is on a whole higher level. What am i suggesting, i am suggesting that it is a one off never to be repeated level that not even Elvis could repeat.

Sure, but did that mean Elvis should have been mumbling his lyrics to "Suspicious Minds" during a live, country-spanning broadcast? Or that we need to excuse him for doing so?

[Hard Rocker]

No i disagree, in 1968 Elvis set the bar so high, even by his standards.

Have Others can set the bar high? YES obviously.

But that 68 Special is on a whole higher level. What am i suggesting, i am suggesting that it is a one off never to be repeated level that not even Elvis could repeat.

Sure,

Thank you.

[poormadpeter2]

The "album of standards" Tom Jones was referring to was From The Heart (Decca LK 4814, August 1966), period.

However, since I well knew both the LP and its contents, I also understood how Jones might conflate the meanings you continue to hysterically debate. Why? Because the release did not exclusively feature material from the "Great American songbook."

I have provided a scan of this LP, so you can see for yourself how Jones, for example, delivers songs by both Cole Porter AND Leiber and Stoller, songs that were easy-listening hits for Ray Charles, the Platters, Herb Alpert & The Tijuana Brass AND Frank Sinatra. It was a mix, just as I noted.

And the songs were extremely covered by many artists, which was why Jones referred to it as a mistake. What we may conclude from this additional series of FACTS is I am correct about this latest sub-discussion, one you are trying to inflame.

Also, the friendly Elvis and Tom discussion about Jones' LP did not happen "in 1965/early 1966," either. The album did not come out until the summer of 1966, as I note. Further, the singers met just briefly in the summer of 1965 at Paramount, again so in the spring of 1968 in Las Vegas. It was only later they spent serious time together where such a chat might have come up, and given the type of sets Elvis was delivering in the "Aloha" era, this would be a likely time-frame.

Well, you tried.

I did more than that. I supported the statement you challenged with even more facts, proved you didn't even know the content of the album you tried to present, and set in proper context the conversation the two singers enjoyed. It's time to move on now, this sub-discussion is finished.

You did nothing of the sort - what you did was make an argument that makes no sense. You are arguing that Elvis was warning Tom Jones to move away from easy listening (not swing material as I suggested, but easy listening - a different entity) because "we leave that to Frank" around the time of ALOHA when Elvis was singing MOR material more and more in his concerts himself. Do you have any understanding of how stupid and nonsensical that sounds?

[drjohncarpenter]

I did more than that. I supported the statement you challenged with even more facts, proved you didn't even know the content of the album you tried to present, and set in proper context the conversation the two singers enjoyed. It's time to move on now, this sub-discussion is finished.

You ...

You are trying to inflame, and adding nothing to this topic. Move on.

"Wise men know, when it's time, time to go."

[poormadpeter2]

I did more than that. I supported the statement you challenged with even more facts, proved you didn't even know the content of the album you tried to present, and set in proper context the conversation the two singers enjoyed. It's time to move on now, this sub-discussion is finished.

You ...

You are trying to inflame, and adding nothing to this topic. Move on.

"Wise men know, when it's time, time to go."

You are trying to avoid the issue.

[Jamie]

Hi again,

Another couple of points. I didn't forget about RCA 's demand but I'd challenge it. I don't think adding some covers would increase the sales. I think the album because of the significance of the event would have sold anyway. My song line up is ballad heavy because that was what Elvis was in to at that point, I tried to retain the essence of the original line up but totally get the point about avoiding to many big numbers together. I would say though that How Great Thou Art for What Now My Love seems a straight swop of power house songs to me? What do people think about the encore suggestion?

Cheers

[matilda]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

[Hard Rocker]

I agree. Let Yourself Go is better, but not the other three.

In fairness, the 68 special saw improved versions of some of the 50's material, eg Lawdy Miss Clawdy, Trying To Get To You, and a few others.

[Juan Luis]

I agree. Let Yourself Go is better, but not the other three.

In fairness, the 68 special saw improved versions of some of the 50's material, eg Lawdy Miss Clawdy, Trying To Get To You, and a few others.

The vocals were great. But the TV/Broadway arrangements on "Big Boss Man", "It Hurts Me", "Let yourself Go", make them listenable through the audio/video combination only, for me. The Joan Deary edits helped on "It Hurts Me" and "Let Yourself Go". Especially "It Hurts Me". A song that was recorded (vocals as well) mostly in sections.

[Domino]

When I hear Elvis crooning a ballad I think,this is the guy who stumbled into Sun because he wanted to sing the ballads.Wasn't looking to be a rocker.
When he got the power in his pipes to belt out a ballad ,he did it and he did it "His Way".

[Hard Rocker]

I agree. Let Yourself Go is better, but not the other three.

In fairness, the 68 special saw improved versions of some of the 50's material, eg Lawdy Miss Clawdy, Trying To Get To You, and a few others.

The vocals were great. But the TV/Broadway arrangements on "Big Boss Man", "It Hurts Me", "Let yourself Go", make them listenable through the audio/video combination only, for me. The Joan Deary edits helped on "It Hurts Me" and "Let Yourself Go". Especially "It Hurts Me". A song that was recorded (vocals as well) mostly in sections.

Yeah, I remember hearing these on Legendary Performer and thinking they were great... even though I still prefer the original IHM... one of the great Presley tracks IMO.

[poormadpeter2]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

Me too - the arrangements are crass and reek of the TV show sound of the period. Guitar Man gets a good run-through at the beginning of the show, but it has none of the authenticity of the 1967 studio recording, with horns wailing away in a way that would make even Joe Guercio blush. It's odd how the people who moan about the Vegas arrangements of later years seem to be entirely deaf to them when it comes to the 68 comeback. When it comes down to it, it's the sit-down segments, the gospel medley, and If I Can Dream that make the show - the other elements are entertaining enough but suffer from overblown, often by-the-book arrangements that hinder rather than help.

[Juan Luis]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

Me too - the arrangements are crass and reek of the TV show sound of the period. Guitar Man gets a good run-through at the beginning of the show, but it has none of the authenticity of the 1967 studio recording, with horns wailing away in a way that would make even Joe Guercio blush. It's odd how the people who moan about the Vegas arrangements of later years seem to be entirely deaf to them when it comes to the 68 comeback. When it comes down to it, it's the sit-down segments, the gospel medley, and If I Can Dream that make the show - the other elements are entertaining enough but suffer from overblown, often by-the-book arrangements that hinder rather than help.

Quoted for truth.

[matilda]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

Me too - the arrangements are crass and reek of the TV show sound of the period. Guitar Man gets a good run-through at the beginning of the show, but it has none of the authenticity of the 1967 studio recording, with horns wailing away in a way that would make even Joe Guercio blush. It's odd how the people who moan about the Vegas arrangements of later years seem to be entirely deaf to them when it comes to the 68 comeback. When it comes down to it, it's the sit-down segments, the gospel medley, and If I Can Dream that make the show - the other elements are entertaining enough but suffer from overblown, often by-the-book arrangements that hinder rather than help.

I agree. On some instances he bettered his studio masters from the 50s.....like he did onnthe sit down segmen of lawdy miss claudy..or for that matter trying to get to you. But the original record master of 64 is an unparalleled triumph. Soft where its suitable...agressive and passionate (on the 68 production master he is only aggressive) when its suitable . The 64 master is a masterpiece and delivers the message in a lot of nuances. Just because in 68 he looked great and rocked...that doesn't mean he bettered all (!) masters from the mid sixties. By the way.....although not that important cause it wasn't a full version....the master of little Egypt is way stronger than that little sequence on the 68 special. But whatever. His 64 rendition of if hurts me is a masterpiece. His rendition in 68 is OK...and in the context mofnthe 68 special also OK. BUT talkin about just the audio......well, energy and aggressiveness doesn't help the lyric intention of hurt and anger qnd jealousy about the other guy of the 64 master.

[drjohncarpenter]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

The 1964 master of "It Hurts Me" is understated and beautiful, the 1968 performances from Western Recorders and NBC Burbank become a matter of life and death. Whatever your personal preference, it is without question that Elvis' remarkable renditions of the above songs are striking, sounding like nothing he had done before. The arrangements are secondary to this fact. He set the bar to where it had once been, before the army. It is yet another reason why the TV special is a significant career achievement and why the 1973 program pales by comparison. And that is my point.

[Juan Luis]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

The 1964 master of "It Hurts Me" is understated and beautiful, the 1968 performances from Western Recorders and NBC Burbank become a matter of life and death. Whatever your personal preference, it is without question that Elvis' remarkable renditions of the above songs are striking, sounding like nothing he had done before. The arrangements are secondary to this fact. He set the bar to where it had once been, before the army. It is yet another reason why the TV special is a significant career achievement and why the 1973 program pales by comparison. And that is my point.

Secondary for this argument. Primary for other arguments. How comfortable.

[r&b]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

The 1964 master of "It Hurts Me" is understated and beautiful, the 1968 performances from Western Recorders and NBC Burbank become a matter of life and death. Whatever your personal preference, it is without question that Elvis' remarkable renditions of the above songs are striking, sounding like nothing he had done before. The arrangements are secondary to this fact. He set the bar to where it had once been, before the army. It is yet another reason why the TV special is a significant career achievement and why the 1973 program pales by comparison. And that is my point.

That was my exact thought upon hearing this in 1964. My second thought was, why on earth is this on a B side? It was a ballad that was arranged beautifully, sung with more soul than any movie ballad and a song that didnt sound dated the way some of the singles did. Always reminded me of the gigantic Lesley Gore hit You Dont Own Me, in some odd way also from early '64. I thought it was a perfect song to be a hit in 1964.

[drjohncarpenter]

The 1964 master of "It Hurts Me" is understated and beautiful, the 1968 performances from Western Recorders and NBC Burbank become a matter of life and death. Whatever your personal preference, it is without question that Elvis' remarkable renditions of the above songs are striking, sounding like nothing he had done before. The arrangements are secondary to this fact. He set the bar to where it had once been, before the army. It is yet another reason why the TV special is a significant career achievement and why the 1973 program pales by comparison. And that is my point.

That was my exact thought upon hearing this in 1964. My second thought was, why on earth is this on a B side? It was a ballad that was arranged beautifully, sung with more soul than any movie ballad and a song that didnt sound dated the way some of the singles did. Always reminded me of the gigantic Lesley Gore hit You Dont Own Me, in some odd way also from early '64. I thought it was a perfect song to be a hit in 1964.

My comment is to the astonishing 1968 performances that began this sub-discussion, but I agree the studio recording of "It Hurts Me" is top-shelf.

I suspect Elvis' original plan was to have RCA issue "Memphis, Tennessee" as his new A-side that spring, with "It Hurts Me" on the flip. Two fresh, studio recordings for a new and very challenging year in the pop marketplace. They would have at least done decently, and no one would have for a second questioned Presley's commitment to his art. But Hollywood was more important.

Four years later that was a very sorry lesson learned, and Elvis was fighting for his life. Thus, the earth-shaking studio and live recordings in June 1968.

[GERRY]

Doc wrote:-

Thus, the earth-shaking studio and live recordings in June 1968.

Yep and still being felt as the best performance from that Special in the 1960's titling a number one album in 2015, who would have thought it!

[poormadpeter2]

For what it's worth I'm glad that songs like Big Boss Man, Let Yourself Go, It Hurts Me, and Guitar Man were featured in the 68 special. They weren't hits by Elvis but they were solid, even fantastic songs that found a home in those production numbers.

And it almost goes without saying that his dynamic vocal performance on each of these is absolutely thrilling, and generally surpass the studio recordings made in 1964 and 1967. In 1973, the singer did not set the bar as high, did he?

I strongly disagree . especially on it hurts me. His 1968 over the top vocal and the lacking of the delicate quality in the softer passages rubs the song of something. The 1963 master is miles better than the 1968 karate show off production number song.

The 1964 master of "It Hurts Me" is understated and beautiful, the 1968 performances from Western Recorders and NBC Burbank become a matter of life and death. Whatever your personal preference, it is without question that Elvis' remarkable renditions of the above songs are striking, sounding like nothing he had done before. The arrangements are secondary to this fact. He set the bar to where it had once been, before the army. It is yet another reason why the TV special is a significant career achievement and why the 1973 program pales by comparison. And that is my point.

Of course the arrangements are not secondary to that fact. Quite the opposite, as you and others continually point out every time Vegas is brought up here. There is more a great recording than a great vocal - it requires a great arrangement, too. And Big Boss Man, Guitar Man, It Hurts Me and Let Yourself Go certainly did not get those in 1968 and, I would add, neither did a number of the hits during the stand up segments either. The arrangements were cheesy then, and they are cheesy now. Sure, Elvis's vocals elevates them, but he doesn't manage to escape them.