Elvis Presley At 3AM - Lake Tahoe 1973 (Memphis Recording Service)

[drjohncarpenter]

I don't have a gazillion excuses. I don't have one. I don't have a buddy on here, whereas you do.

I'm talking about whether it's legal or not. Now, if you can prove there is a direct copy from and FTD then I would agree with you that it is wrong. However, none of that has been proved yet.

Oh, yes it has. Many, many times.

In fact, imagine if an FTD engineer secretly marked some audio files in a manner that would not be noticed by the Aussie thief.
And then imagine if that engineer was able to see the marking in the same audio files on the grey market title.

Take all the time you need to figure out how that happened.

[emjel]

Emjel, I don't have those albums nor do I support them. So what you are trying to imply here is not clear to me.

Besides, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because certain importers are doing crap releases parasiting off of Sony product, doesn't mean that it's okay for MRS to be doing the same.

Well at least we are now getting somewhere with your acknowledgement that these recent releases are copying off Sony and therefore deemed to be illegal, although you haven’t actual mentioned that last bit. However, the point that is not so clear is whether you would condemn these labels if they were putting out unreleased recordings that would offer you merit.

And why do I mention that? Well yesterday and before that, you were selling us the virtues of the Madison label because In their best years, they and labels like them brought us new stuff, unreleased and essential and offered things of merit. Now statements like that are not the problem, but the fact you don’t condemn them or the people that put such releases out as a bunch of thieves or whatever adjective you wish to use is the point that is being made. In other words, there are people one here who condemn one label ie MRS , but do not offer the same feelings or condemnation of the other labels that feed off Elvis recordings.

Re your closing paragraph about two wrongs not making a right, indeed that is true, and nobody is condoning MRS if they are releasing recordings that they do not have the right to do so, but at the moment, we have no idea regarding what the situation is that surrounds this particular forthcoming release. As I wrote, on the face of it, this release is questionable as it seems unlikely that these recordings are in the public domain for anyone to use, but until we are privy to ALL the facts, then we shouldn’t be making wild assumptions and become judge and jury and then throwing out accusations to the label and its owner. That doesn’t mean we support them if releases are illegal, but at the moment are simply keeping an open mind.

[Lee Wood]

I don't have a gazillion excuses. I don't have one. I don't have a buddy on here, whereas you do.

I'm talking about whether it's legal or not. Now, if you can prove there is a direct copy from and FTD then I would agree with you that it is wrong. However, none of that has been proved yet.

Oh, yes it has. Many, many times.

In fact, imagine if an FTD engineer secretly marked some audio files in a manner that would not be noticed by the Aussie thief.
And then imagine if that engineer was able to see the marking in the same audio files on the grey market title.

Take all the time you need to figure out how that happened.

Please print the list of CDs where this has happened. As I said, "I'm talking about whether it's legal or not. Now, if you can prove there is a direct copy from an FTD then I would agree with you that it is wrong. However, none of that has been proved yet".

Feel free to let us know instead of making ludicrous statements like "Take all the time you need to figure out how that happened".

So, a) print the list, b) show that it's illegal, and I'll agree that it's wrong. Until then, you're just waffling.

[emjel]

I don't have a gazillion excuses. I don't have one. I don't have a buddy on here, whereas you do.

I'm talking about whether it's legal or not. Now, if you can prove there is a direct copy from and FTD then I would agree with you that it is wrong. However, none of that has been proved yet.

Oh, yes it has. Many, many times.

In fact, imagine if an FTD engineer secretly marked some audio files in a manner that would not be noticed by the Aussie thief.
And then imagine if that engineer was able to see the marking in the same audio files on the grey market title.

Take all the time you need to figure out how that happened.

Please print the list of CDs where this has happened. As I said, "I'm talking about whether it's legal or not. Now, if you can prove there is a direct copy from an FTD then I would agree with you that it is wrong. However, none of that has been proved yet".

Feel free to let us know instead of making ludicrous statements like "Take all the time you need to figure out how that happened".

So, a) print the list, b) show that it's illegal, and I'll agree that it's wrong. Until then, you're just waffling.

Coding the digital recording simply just shows the source of where the recording came from. If the recordings are in the public domain, then no one individual or company owns those recordings so what would be the point. And why go to the trouble of coding the recordings if you are not prepared to do something about it.

All the other bootleg releases that have appeared over the decades and even in recent months don’t need coding embedded as it’s pretty obvious that said recordings have been taken from officially owned RCA recordings whether they are in the public domain or not. But he still seems to be missing the point. Condemn all the other illegal releases from other companies and the back and forth arguments stop.

[PiersEIN]

Autism Spectrum Disorder is when people like to count words and we have seen FECC members actually do this in their posts.
BUT, knowing engineers at work like I do, that really is OK.

SO "being the time of year that it is" I thought I might count some votes on this lengthy thread about a 2024 Public Domain CD release by a guy that died over 45 years ago!
I guess you can call it Christmas fascination and hey, statistics are often featured on FECC, so why not? .

I thought I'd look at the main contributor 'Number of Posts' vs 'Number of "Approves / Thanks"
And then we can rate them in "FECC members positive Xmas vibes" order
AND.. we get...

Piers EIN - 5 posts - 16 'Thanks' = +3.2 FECC member agreement

pmp - 9 posts - 15 'Thanks' = 1.66 FECC member agreement

emjel - 40 posts - 26 'Thanks' = 0.65 FECC member agreement

Lee Wood - 29 posts - 15 'Thanks' = 0.52 FECC member agreement

Union Avenue - 31 posts - 15 'Thanks' (including 5 from the obvious cohort) = 0.483 FECC member agreement

drjohncarpenter - 12 posts - only 2 'Thanks' = 0.166 FECC member agreement

So seriously, without me knowing it before I started my checks - I am the winner! FECC people like me, oh gee...!!

and rather interestingly my sweet sweet buddies are truly failing the FECC gratitude test with their negative MRS attitude.

Well, ain't that something.

Cheers,
Piers

[skabillyrebels]

[emjel]

Re your closing paragraph about two wrongs not making a right, indeed that is true, and nobody is condoning MRS if they are releasing recordings that they do not have the right to do so, but at the moment, we have no idea regarding what the situation is that surrounds this particular forthcoming release. As I wrote, on the face of it, this release is questionable as it seems unlikely that these recordings are in the public domain for anyone to use, but until we are privy to ALL the facts, then we shouldn’t be making wild assumptions and become judge and jury and then throwing out accusations to the label and its owner. That doesn’t mean we support them if releases are illegal, but at the moment are simply keeping an open mind.

It seems to me that you are trying to cloud the real issue at hand with those endless wordsalats of yours that are neither here not there.

But I feel that we are, slowly but surely, getting somewhere.

It has nothing to do with clouding the real issue but what is called keeping an open mind until ALL the facts are known and proven beyond reasonable doubt.
But why don’t you try and uncloud the issues….What exactly is the real issue according to you. It can’t be that you think it’s illegal to release recordings that are in the public domain, because it isn’t. So if it’s to do with this forthcoming release, then at this moment in time, all we know is that it is MRS’s intention to release it in February year year, but that does not mean it will definitely happen if it can be proven that copyright violation will happen upon release or if Sony even do something about it if that is the case.

[emjel]

Sure, keeping an open mind, I'm all for that. But is that what you are doing?

It seems to me that you are only trying to diffuse any criticism of the label. What your motivations are, I don't know. But have a look at your own postings here, and you will see the pattern. It just strikes me as odd.

It seems to me that you are misreading the points being made, not just by me, but by others too. I simply do not see any need to criticise the label or throw out personal insults to the owner if what they are doing is legal. Their soundboard releases so far appear to meet the criteria of using public domain recordings. Nothing more….nothing less. And if those recordings help certain fans buy into that material, especially if the material is no longer available via FTD or is being sold at ridiculously high prices, then what is the problem.

[pmp]

And yet you have openly supported the Madison label, with volumes 7 onwards of their Legendary Performer series stealing from all kinds of sources, including Sony and FTD.

So why have you praised them and yet are so persistently against MRS? It clearly has nothing to do with their practices.

Um, where did I do that, in your fractured mind? Because I NEVER did any such thing here.

The last Madison release was 15 years ago. Whatever you're talking about was done by imposters.

And you're the guy who touts all the Elvis books you self-publish. Dear me.

Oh, dear.

Forum dimwit desperately digs up a single comment made more than . . . 17 YEARS AGO.

Yes, I did dig into your posts from years ago, and do you know what was most striking? That they were considerably better than a vile outburst such as this, and your endless parade of posts containing little more than a smiley face.

Oh Doc, how the mighty have fallen.

[emjel]

It seems to me that you are misreading the points being made, not just by me, but by others too.

Because I don't agree with you? Wow, that's arrogant.

I have made my position clear. I think it's scumbag behavior of the label to be simply parasiting off of the FTD releases.

And nothing I've heard so far has changed my mind about that fact.

No, not because you disagree with me or us, but because it "seems’ you do not understand what is being said and that is if fans are going to discredit one label for copying RCA recordings and releasing them, even though they appear to be legal and serve a purpose, then those same fans should also condemn other labels too, especially when they are illegal, otherwise you are going to be seen as being hypocritical.

Already, there is a return to your insults with the use of "scumbag behaviour" wording - it seems you simply cannot help yourself when trying to justify your argument. Do you also think it’s scumbag behaviour for established dealers to then sell these MRS releases and make money from them. Do you think it’s scumbag behaviour in allowing those fans who missed out on the original FTD releases which are no longer available, the opportunity of getting some of those soundboard recordings now and when the releases are legal? Or perhaps you would prefer a label like Madison which you seem to support, to release them.

And this overall response of yours seems a long way from you believing that you like to keep an open mind especially when you end with the comment "And nothing I've heard so far has changed my mind about that fact". It seems that your open mind in reality is a closed door which is firmly shut and locked.

[joekro1977]

Are the MRS releases legal in the U.S.?
Or are they, if sold there, bootlegs?

MRS Product is available on the US Amazon website - among other places.

100% Legal.

[joekro1977]

Legal is sometimes a meaningless word. In some countries, prostitution and drugs are legal. Does that make it right?

Your exact question was "Are the MRS releases legal in the U.S.?"

I answered the question that was asked.

I can buy a machine gun, tobacco, alcohol, and pornography legally in the United States also.

Whether those things are "right" is a matter of personal morality.

You think the MRS releases are immoral, "not right", whatever - that's fine.

But you asked "are they legal" - and the answer is "yes they are."

[pmp]

Legal is sometimes a meaningless word. In some countries, prostitution and drugs are legal. Does that make it right?

Let's put it another way:

Just because something doesn't fit with an American"s view of the world doesn't make it wrong. Other countries are available.

[pmp]

Emjel, I don't have those albums nor do I support them. So what you are trying to imply here is not clear to me.

Besides, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because certain importers are doing crap releases parasiting off of Sony product, doesn't mean that it's okay for MRS to be doing the same.

But you don't seem to have issues with the bootlegs, do you? I don't recall you spending this energy on arguing against them. So is your issue with the alleged practices or the people doing it?

[pmp]

Are the MRS releases legal in the U.S.?
Or are they, if sold there, bootlegs?

MRS Product is available on the US Amazon website - among other places.

100% Legal.

Like DJC, Union seems completely oblivious to the fact that there are thousands of works by Europeans that are in the public domain in the US, but in copyright in Europe. And yes, the US issues of those works get imported legally via Amazon into the UK and mainland Europe.

I wonder if he thinks that's "right?"

The whole idea of a hardcore Elvis fan getting to 2023 and then claiming he has a conscience about what is "right" when it comes to Elvis releases is, at best, hypocritical, and, at worst, f-ing hilarious.

[emjel]

Emjel, I don't have those albums nor do I support them. So what you are trying to imply here is not clear to me.

Besides, two wrongs don't make a right. Just because certain importers are doing crap releases parasiting off of Sony product, doesn't mean that it's okay for MRS to be doing the same.

But you don't seem to have issues with the bootlegs, do you? I don't recall you spending this energy on arguing against them. So is your issue with the alleged practices or the people doing it?

He reckons that copyright does not both him. His arguments in favour of bootlegs, especially those from days gone by, appears to be that they offered something new, something that was unreleased and therefore offered true merit, regardless of the fact they were illegal. He does not believe MRS offer that, even though I tried to point out to him that those fans or the casual fans who didn’t or cannot buy into the FTD releases for whatever reason, do find merit in the MRS releases. So I wonder what his take on the matter would be if MRS put out stuff that was new and unreleased. Not sure but didn’t they do that sometime last year when they beat FTD to releasing one or two shows.

Re your closing sentence, he’s probably down the local police station now reporting that offensive and threatening communication he received from the owner of MRS because of his complaints on here. I won’t going into the subject matter again, but you must have read it.

[Ciscoking]

Folks..please calm down... [Snip]

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[emjel]

Folks..please calm down... [Snip]

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But there are plenty of other active threads within the forum that discuss the man and his music. This thread is not the Forum is it. But yes, have a great and relaxing Crimble and Santa brings you all the Elvis goodies you want……and of course eat and drink as much as you want…..

[Ciscoking]

Thanks for the hypocritical wishes...among Elvis fans.

[emjel]

Thanks for the hypocritical wishes...among Elvis fans.

If that is addressed to me, I can assure you my sentiments were serious.

[Ciscoking]

Okay...sorry for that...in all honesty.

[Ciscoking]

Folks..please calm down... [Snip]

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[emjel]

Folks..please calm down... [Snip]

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Indeed it seems that a few people here are having a meltdown of sorts. It all comes down to not respecting other people's viewpoints. You may not like my viewpoints, fine -- but they are mine. Let's respect each other different viewpoints and move on.
Especially Emjel seems to be making this into a matter of life and death. Some of the stuff he is writing is downright insane. No emjel, I am not running down to the police station following our discussion here. Honestly, where on earth do you get crazy stuff like that?
You really need to chill down a bit. And don't twist my words around in these crazy wordsalats of yours. Thank you.

I think life and death is a bit of an over exaggeration, don’t you. But here’s the thing I don’t get. You write about respecting each others different viewpoints and move on, but instead of doing exactly that, you then claim what I am writing is downright insane. The bit about the police station was a bit of tongue in cheek humour, and sorry if you missed that but you have to agree that a few others have offered friendly advice that you should take off the back of that communication you said you received. But hey, if you don’t feel the need to report it, then that’s your choice. No pressure.

As for twisting words, what words would that be? And chilling out….well it’s not me throwing out accusations and insults is it. So far, you’ve accused the owner of MRS as being a thief, a scumbag, a lowlife and a fraudster, whilst telling or implying that certain people on here are simpletons, or are dimwitted followed by false accusations that I am threatening you and that my comments have consequences and as for my friendly advice, you reckon I can "stick that advice where the sun don't shine". And I won’t mention about the nasty comment about feet….oh but I already have. So not exactly the best track record for someone who advocates "chilling out" is it.

Anyhow, putting differences of opinions to one side, you have a great Crimble and I hope you get that boxset of MRS releases that you want - the last bit about the boxset was just a bit of humour. But I wouldn’t want anyone to have a rubbish Christmas because we have differences of opinions on here, so yeah, have a good one and enjoy whatever it is you have planned with your family for the holiday season.

[emjel]

Folks..please calm down... [Snip]

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Indeed it seems that a few people here are having a meltdown of sorts. It all comes down to not respecting other people's viewpoints. You may not like my viewpoints, fine -- but they are mine. Let's respect each other different viewpoints and move on.
Especially Emjel seems to be making this into a matter of life and death. Some of the stuff he is writing is downright insane. No emjel, I am not running down to the police station following our discussion here. Honestly, where on earth do you get crazy stuff like that?
You really need to chill down a bit. And don't twist my words around in these crazy wordsalats of yours. Thank you.

This was a first step..btw..Union Ave...I know you are a well respected fan in the Elvis world..I dont know emjel..although I have a guess ..anyway..doesnt matter..as you said..lets calm down..cmon ...its Xmas..and we cant change things anyway..be it bootlegs..FTD..public domain...etc..it will go on..in the end ..there are more important things...at least I have made the experience..being almost 60 now...and I am happy with this...

Okay, so as you don’t know me, and I’d prefer you not to guess, what would you like to know. How long i’ve been a fan or what I buy or don’t buy.

[Ciscoking]

At least some nice words after 39 + pages with argueing..in the end about what...gentlemen..
we are Elvis fans..no label fans..can we agree now.
Wish you all the best.