FTD 'On Tour' Deluxe Release Confirmed

[YDKM]

in 2016 via visiting a friend i saw an excel sheet with Ernst's brief notes and ratings for all the soundboards he has heard and has......but i could not ever post it or even think about that as that would be wrong. Clearly here the shared notes were expressly NOT for sharing and if this is happening to give a 2021 'on tour' books more attraction before FTD in 2022 that is very bad indeed.I also have been told Eric Lorenzen is using 'on tour' screen shot grabs... just to fill up 3 volumes by calling these 'new photos!' rubbish! i will wait until 2022 and FTD's product thanks.

[dougkapp]

You probably don't understand what I mean. As I said: many people in the Elvis world are dishonest. That's all.

[pmp]

It has come to my attention that some of my personal recording notes are being used in Erik Lorentzen’s forthcoming Elvis On Tour book [without permission]

Does it mean there were some kind of collaboration between the two parties? Or does it mean the notes were simply stolen?
If it is the scenario number one, it's a head-scratcher to some degree, because we the fans are being deliberately offered similar stuff by two sides.
And if not, one should however be aware that shared goods (paperwors, photos, information...) can be stolen afterall.

No its not a collaboration , its blatant theft ! And theres nothing much head scratching about it, its very simple infact !
Ernst is not going to work on Eriks books when he is working on the OFFICIAL "On Tour " project,
nor is he going to GIVE AWAY his research/work !
Its blatant theft and it is NOT ok in any way, shape or form!
Infact there is a court case there but the costs & time involved probably preclude that and Erik may well be hedging his bets on this very fact !

i think your assuming Ernst left his notebook on Eriks coffee table , even if he did thats still not permission to steal the contents !! Its more likely Erik has simply photo copied the pages from
" A Life In Music" - Again still far from ok or legal!

Copyright laws regarding the written page, just as a still photo (as 2 examples) are actually very clear & easy to understand , stealing notes and stealing photos without permission, payment via the correct legal channels is not only an amateur move but a very (deleted - see guideline #2) one !

i would think, if theres 1 person you would NOT steal from in the elvis world it would be Ernst J !

Of course it's not right, but this clearly isn't a case of copying stuff from A Life in Music. Read again what Ernst has said:

It has come to my attention that some of my personal recording notes are being used in Erik Lorentzen’s forthcoming Elvis On Tour book. This is disappointing; as Erik has been notified that this information is private and confidential, and prior to publication permission is required, which has not been granted.

Quite clearly anything already published in A Life in Music is not private or confidential. What's more, there is no law or even convention against including information from another book in your own - that's why we include sources/references.

So, again, the question here is how Erik has got hold of Ernst's "personal recording notes" - whatever they might be - if there hadn't been a collaboration, and we have been told that there was not. Those notes must have been shared between the two of them in some shape or form.

[Z0S0]

Quite clearly anything already published in A Life in Music is not private or confidential. What's more, there is no law or even convention against including information from another book in your own -
that's why we include sources/references.

Those notes must have been shared between the two of them in some shape or form.

Shane, theres no sense in an argument here based on speculation because we dont know the facts
nor are we likely ever too, The doc really has rubbed off on you ! Lets not tie this up in semantics.

Quite clearly you ARE correct, providing that material is used as reference only & acknowledged as such!!!
Dont be disingenuous , youre much better than that!
I never said Ernst's book IS private & confidential
HOWEVER his unpublished notes & research are - as you very well know!

I was trying to make it clear than Erik didnt necessarily break into Ernst's Garage at midnight!
BUT
regardless HOW he got the notes is not important is it!

Its not a stretch to assume that Erik & Ernst we're possibly friends at 1 time and/or moved in the same circles !
Pal was friends with Erik - they went to Madison square garden together!
Pal & ernst are working on the ON TOUR ftd together .....

Lets keep this in perspective, Ernst is CURRENTLY working on the "ON TOUR " project, he was clearly going to use his own research & notes, Erik takes that info (not GIVING it with permission to use but STEALS IT !) and puts it out a year before Ernst gets it out!

As an author yourself in what universe do you see this as being either likely? or acceptable??

I am FULLY aware of law regarding sources and references, as i know you are !

I covered copyright law doing my B.A but this is not about "Harvard referencing an annotated Bibliography" is it ! we are not talking about using published works for reference, I already covered that & used Guralnick as a clear example!

Youre the last person i need to explain this to or argue with!

If i steal 10 pages out of " reconsider Baby " and pass it off as my own work,
without asking, paying or even notifying you - will you be ok with that ?
How about if it was your unpublished draft of your next book ???

YDKM mentioned he saw Ernst's soundboard spreadsheet, had he stolen that & published it in a book or even posted it here would you pat him on the back?

Forgetting the actual LAW for a moment - there is also the case of Ethics and morals,
of which ERIK clearly has none !

Ernst J has done more for the recorded work of Elvis Presley than anyone else ever will and for that he deserves a certain amount of respect.

This is tantamount to going backstage to meet Elvis for a photo and autograph and running off with one of his Belts.

[pmp]

Shane, theres no sense in an argument here based on speculation because we dont know the facts
nor are we likely ever too, The doc really has rubbed off on you ! Lets not tie this up in semantics.

You seem to be not aware of what YOU actually wrote:

Its more likely Erik has simply photo copied the pages from
" A Life In Music" - Again still far from ok or legal!

And yet Ernst wrote:

It has come to my attention that some of my personal recording notes are being used in Erik Lorentzen’s forthcoming Elvis On Tour book. This is disappointing; as Erik has been notified that this information is private and confidential, and prior to publication permission is required, which has not been granted.

Therefore quite clearly your comment about A Life in Music is NOT correct.

So, before you type a tirade in reply, I suggest you check what you typed AND WHAT WE KNOW.

What's more, we still don't know how Erik got hold of whatever he has used. I'm sure Erik and Ernst haven't been meeting up in Starbucks and comparing notes which Erik quickly photographed with his mobile phone while Ernst was having a pee. So nobody knows what is going on here. But it's clear it has nothing to do with a book published 20+ years ago as per your suggestion. And nobody is saying that was has happened is right. It clearly isn't. I'm simply saying your suggestion is undoubtedly wrong.

Much of the key to this is how Erik got hold of the information he is supposedly including in his new book. Who shared what with who, and why? We only have half a story here.

[Z0S0]

Therefore quite clearly your comment about A Life in Music is NOT correct.

So, before you type a tirade in reply, I suggest you check what you typed AND WHAT WE KNOW.

What's more, we still don't know how Erik got hold of whatever he has used. I'm sure Erik and Ernst haven't been meeting up in Starbucks and comparing notes which Erik quickly photographed with his mobile phone while Ernst was having a pee. So nobody knows what is going on here. But it's clear it has nothing to do with a book published 20+ years ago as per your suggestion. And nobody is saying that was has happened is right. It clearly isn't. I'm simply saying your suggestion is undoubtedly wrong.

And let's also be clear: we only have one side of the story.

<It wasnt a Tirade actually but i guess i write in an aggressive manner>

OK I used a poor example (and thats all it was)
certainly not intended as literal FACT! (no more than your " starbucks scenario ")

I didnt foresee being dragged over the coals for it, I was trying to use a simple example aimed not at you but at the people that dont understand the issue, who remark such as: " well it was bound to happen, no big deal the world keeps turning "

My mistake!! so you win this argument on THAT point ! happy now??
Feel that DJC smugness lighting up your cheeks?

The problem here is that everyone is so used to the bootleg/ PD releases that THEFT is considered OK by most here as long as something lands in their lap & its of no cost to them !!

It doesnt matter that we only have one side of the story.....

This is ONLY an ok situation if Ernst J specifically handed Erik his notes & said
" there you go buddy feel free to publish them in your book, you have my permission" !!

Had he done just that he would NOT have resorted to making a VERY RARE public statement !!

"whats that Erik? yeah take my notes buddy, No of course those 100 photographers dont want paying for their 1200 photos either ha ha ha , tell ya what partner lets go sabotage the next SBD,
We'll turn the pitch down just a tad, yeah 5%, that'll really get the Ba****d's ! "

Im not going to reply anymore about this ! I used a poor example in my argument so my apologies your honour regardless, I'm sure we both agree artistic/creative plagiarism is very wrong !

McDonalds have copyright on the 'M' of their logo/name for christs sake ...
how do you copyright a letter from the alphabet!!? Even if you do redesign the shape of the letter??
what does that tell anyone ????????

My stance will remain EXACTLY the same; Using other peoples work, be it photographs or written work without permission and payment is not & never will be OK... its legally wrong and morally wrong!!

With that statement i have nothing more to say !

[Christopher Brown]

I went to an Elvis memorabilia show once, and saw a 'book' being sold that was essentially one-half of my first book, ON TOUR WITH ELVIS, photocopied in poor quality, with a dedication that thanked me for contributing. I did not contribute, I was ripped off, and I was not happy. Luckily, by that time I had sold all my books, but I was incensed that someone would just copy my research and written text so he or she could make a buck.

[pmp]

Therefore quite clearly your comment about A Life in Music is NOT correct.

So, before you type a tirade in reply, I suggest you check what you typed AND WHAT WE KNOW.

What's more, we still don't know how Erik got hold of whatever he has used. I'm sure Erik and Ernst haven't been meeting up in Starbucks and comparing notes which Erik quickly photographed with his mobile phone while Ernst was having a pee. So nobody knows what is going on here. But it's clear it has nothing to do with a book published 20+ years ago as per your suggestion. And nobody is saying that was has happened is right. It clearly isn't. I'm simply saying your suggestion is undoubtedly wrong.

And let's also be clear: we only have one side of the story.

<It wasnt a Tirade actually but i guess i write in an aggressive manner>

OK I used a poor example (and thats all it was)
certainly not intended as literal FACT! (no more than your " starbucks scenario ")

I didnt foresee being dragged over the coals for it, I was trying to use a simple example aimed not at you but at the people that dont understand the issue, who remark such as: " well it was bound to happen, no big deal the world keeps turning "

My mistake!! so you win this argument on THAT point ! happy now??
Feel that DJC smugness lighting up your cheeks?

The problem here is that everyone is so used to the bootleg/ PD releases that THEFT is considered OK by most here as long as something lands in their lap & its of no cost to them !!

It doesnt matter that we only have one side of the story.....

This is ONLY an ok situation if Ernst J specifically handed Erik his notes & said
" there you go buddy feel free to publish them in your book, you have my permission" !!

Had he done just that he would NOT have resorted to making a VERY RARE public statement !!

"whats that Erik? yeah take my notes buddy, No of course those 100 photographers dont want paying for their 1200 photos either ha ha ha , tell ya what partner lets go sabotage the next SBD,
We'll turn the pitch down just a tad, yeah 5%, that'll really get the Ba****d's ! "

Im not going to reply anymore about this ! I used a poor example in my argument so my apologies your honour regardless, I'm sure we both agree artistic/creative plagiarism is very wrong !

McDonalds have copyright on the 'M' of their logo/name for christs sake ...
how do you copyright a letter from the alphabet!!? Even if you do redesign the shape of the letter??
what does that tell anyone ????????

My stance will remain EXACTLY the same; Using other peoples work, be it photographs or written work without permission and payment is not & never will be OK... its legally wrong and morally wrong!!

With that statement i have nothing more to say !

Nobody has said anywhere in this thread that what has happened is ok. You seem to be having an argument with someone who doesn't exist. And my Starbucks example was a comment on what hadn't happened, your comment was on what "likely" happened.

meanwhile, the other side of the story is always important, otherwise we would be convicting people without a chance of defence, and that would not be happening in a developed nation. I would be rather miffed if I was accused of stealing material without being given the chance of defence.

I have to say I find it rather sad that Ernst refuses to respond to complaints about the sloppyness of FTD products and errors within them, and yet is quick to issue a statement on this. It appears that he comes out of hiding as and when it suits him, which is rather unfortunate.

Either way, two competing authors resorting to airing their dirty laundry in public is not a good look for anyone concerned. It would be much better if they got together and hammered it outbound in private, as two sentences on here isnt going to resolve anything.

If Erik really has used Ernst's notes (and we don't know for sure he has), then one wonders why Ernst was sharing his notes with others in the first place. It seems a remarkably naive thing to do given that he has been publishing books on Elvis since the mid-70s, and that he knows full well that the Elvis world is one of egos and backstabbers.

[galaxie]

Just to set things straight.

Nothing has been stolen from Ernst, everything used by Erik for his On Tour 1972-2022 trilogy has been bought through collectors worldwide. Should Ernst ever entrust or resell his "personal" recording notes to someone else, that has become public. There are no copyrights to the material discussed in this forum. Erik is not a thief, the Elvis world is small and we know us. Davide sent an email at Ernst's request. Ernst did not bother to contact Erik in the first place. Why not?

there is always some rivalry among publishers but this move by Jorgenson is childish and very unprofessional.

Publicity ON TOUR press release (7).jpg

[YDKM]

I would just love an unreleasrd show from either indianapolis or charlotte in April 1972 . But i have a horrible feeling the video tape with those dates on them might only be outside venue footage?

[nod3million]

Could Ernst not have contacted Erik directly? The whole thing seems odd. Plus we’ve been buying bootlegs for years, stolen recordings. I don’t see any objection from Ernst about that lately.

[OnTourCam]

Imagine we got a soundboard or multi track for buffalo
Now that would be something

[OnTourCam]

Imagine we got a soundboard or multi track for buffalo
Now that would be something

[emjel]

Could Ernst not have contacted Erik directly? The whole thing seems odd. Plus we’ve been buying bootlegs for years, stolen recordings. I don’t see any objection from Ernst about that lately.

I suspect he has - that is the implication given by DavidE’s communication. As far as us fans are concerned, we have received statements by two parties - one from the FTD camp ie Ernst via David English that states Erik is using material in his books without permission from Ernst and now a new one from Eric’s camp via "galaxie" whoever they are, disputing that any contact has been made and that nothing has been stolen.

I guess we could discuss this for the next year but in the absence of more info and clarification as to what the material is and where it was originally sourced from, we’ll just be going round in circles no closer to the truth than we are now.

[Z0S0]

I would just love an unreleasrd show from either indianapolis or charlotte in April 1972 . But i have a horrible feeling the video tape with those dates on them might only be outside venue footage?

Imagine we got a soundboard or multi track for buffalo
Now that would be something

we’ve been buying bootlegs for years, stolen recordings. I don’t see any objection from Ernst about that lately.

1) re: Charlotte you can let go of the horrible feeling because Charlotte is in fact in the original movie and always has been though its only visible if you pause ALL 2 seconds of it !

2) Very unlikely, There may well be 'sound' from Buffalo but its not likely to be 16 track in the vein of Hampton Roads etc !

3) Just because bootlegs exist it doesnt make them legal or ethically right ?
why do you think Vic Colonna was arrested and sent to prison ?? !!!!

if you go back a page or 2 you will see where i explained why this is legally & morally wrong! You cannot just go through life stealing whatever you like and that includes the WRITTEN work AND Photographs of others !
just as none of us would walk into costco & simply walk out with a 55" TV !

When & IF you truly understand COPYRIGHT and OWNERSHIP of your own research/notes/photographs etc then you may have an argument!

do you go to work for no pay?
would you be happy to work hard, have a co-worker steal your work claiming its his own thus leaving you out of work, credit & payment !
would you shrug & say " well the world keeps turning, whats all the fuss" ???

Im not JUST referring to Ernst, when Erik steals 1200 photos without paying licencing fees to the photographers thats exactly what is happening !

[Renan]

I would just love an unreleasrd show from either indianapolis or charlotte in April 1972 . But i have a horrible feeling the video tape with those dates on them might only be outside venue footage?

Imagine we got a soundboard or multi track for buffalo
Now that would be something

Im not at liberty to say much but lets say re: Charlotte you can let go of the horrible thing because Charlotte is infact in the original movie let put it that way!
doesnt mean youll get to see any new footage though!

2) Very unlikely, There may well be 'sound' from Buffalo but its not likely to be 16 track in the vein of Hampton Roads etc !

Any concert from April 1972 except the 4 known RCA recorded, might exist in soundboard. Probably the best we will ever get IF we get it in the future.

[Z0S0]

Any concert from April 1972 except the 4 known RCA recorded, might exist in soundboard. Probably the best we will ever get IF we get it in the future.

If you are expecting an unreleased soundboard from that tour then i think youll be very disappointed! There are rumoured to exist (or did at 1 time) at least 4 sbd tapes including knoxville but where are they? not in the FTD vault !

There is certainly a lot of interesting stuff caught on film however hearing them or better ,seeing them on film is very very unlikely !

If you keep your expectations realistic, based on what we know exists with the odd surprise or two its going to be great but if anyone truly expects The complete richmond show to appear in 4K then its going to be a let down i 'think' but who knows??

As i mentioned in the other thread, a hollywood insider told me the 6 hour cut of the upcoming " Get Back" project has exceeded $20 million in production costs !

[Renan]

Any concert from April 1972 except the 4 known RCA recorded, might exist in soundboard. Probably the best we will ever get IF we get it in the future.

If you are expecting an unreleased soundboard from that tour then i think youll be very disappointed! There are rumoured to exist (or did at 1 time) at least 4 sbd tapes including knoxville but where are they? not in the FTD vault !

There is certainly a lot of interesting stuff caught on film ! Two things have already surprised me & put a big smile on my face and would be great to see, one scene alone would make the set BUT however hearing them or better - seeing them on film is very very unlikely !

If you keep your expectations realistic, based on what we know exists with the odd surprise or two its going to be great but if anyone truly expects The complete richmond show to appear in 4K or even multi-track then its going to be a let down i 'think' but who knows??

As i mentioned in the other thread, a hollywood insider told me the 6 hour cut of the upcoming " Get Back" project has exceeded $20 million in production costs !

Actually my expectations are low after all these years because it is quite clear that most of the private collectors with great soundboards in hands, are not willing to deal with Ernst. We all know Ernst does not hold any soundboards from this and earlier tours.

Regarding the EOT outtakes, I believe something will eventually come up which will surprise many fans. But I hate the speculation game because I believe none of us really know what is being planned or not.

[Gamma Master]

Just re-listening to some of the parts of the Richmond show, and man I sure am getting excited for this release! I just also want to express how desperately I want the sound to be mastered well!

Anything new in terms of live audio would be most welcome but let's just say I'm not going to get my hopes up, I'll be more than happy with the 4 that we do have being restored

[Gamma Master]

And just a note on Hampton Roads, I assume this has likely been discussed before but I thought I should share it anyway



In this song I've noticed how at the beginning the sound is pretty bad, but by the end it sounds like a proper multi-track. I think it's safe to say that there's a change in source halfway through (I think on the line "never grumbles or fusses" because I think you can hear that it's slightly out of sync when they're fading between the two). So I'm thinking that maybe the beginning of I Got A Woman wasn't recorded on multi-track and in fact the first half of the song is more akin to a soundboard source (there's a fair bit of background noise and the balance isn't the best).

So that's my theory, the first part of I Got A Woman wasn't recorded on multi-track and a soundboard of the Hampton Roads ES was made, because surely they would have used the multi-track tapes for the film if they were available and not just used this second-rate source be it a soundboard or a poor copy of the multi-track tapes.

Of course I could just be missing something obvious but that seems to make sense to me and I just wanted to hear your thoughts.

[Z0S0]

Regarding the EOT outtakes, I believe something will eventually come up which will surprise many fans. But I hate the speculation game because I believe none of us really know what is being planned or not.

well im NOT speculating !

I dont think there will be any surprises in the audio as its been long documented and bootlegged -
its the actual filming that holds the surprises but therein also lies a huge problem - simply $$$!

As for dealing with Ernst, well a lot of people already have & have been happy with the arrangements!
The problem lies when a collector either doesnt want to share at any price or they invested a fortune and wont sell for anything less than a fortune and thats money the company just wont pay !

be it an unreleased soundboard or unreleased film - they are simply not going to put out a project that takes a real hit & is a failure ! The Lost performances set a precedent there and they havnt been able to move past it since !

[galaxie]

Im not JUST referring to Ernst, when Erik steals 1200 photos without paying licencing fees to the photographers thats exactly what is happening !

A Queen once said: They're (You're) talking from behind.

[Hans]

I still believe that RCA did not record any of the 4 shows, with the exception of San Antone, and that recordings of the shows were made by MGM and are owned by MGM as part of the film. The only tracks that have been released are related to released footage. The 'On Tour' film initially revolved around the San Antone concert, but the concept was changed during production with a focus on the Hampton Roads concert. Of course I do hope that Sony has the recordings of the 4 concerts, but in all the years that this material has not previously been released a separate track without being linked to a video or film release? I'm not saying this is 100% true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

[Z0S0]

I still believe that RCA did not record any of the 4 shows, with the exception of San Antone, and that recordings of the shows were made by MGM and are owned by MGM as part of the film. The only tracks that have been released are related to released footage. The 'On Tour' film initially revolved around the San Antone concert, but the concept was changed during production with a focus on the Hampton Roads concert. Of course I do hope that Sony has the recordings of the 4 concerts, but in all the years that this material has not previously been released a separate track without being linked to a video or film release? I'm not saying this is 100% true, but I wouldn't be surprised.

NO ! RCA/SONY/BMG/Ftd - whoever - have their own copies of all FOUR known shows and all the rehearsals!

They ARE plenty of mysteries and unknowns with the ON TOUR footage but this is a fact and always has been! They have NOT been put out before now because of other reasons tied into the footage but NOT because they dont have them because they DO !

[nyelvfan]

My question is will the 3 songs that weren't on the Hampton bootlegs be on this FTD? (Mountain/I Got a Woman/Never Been to Spain)