"I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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"I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067057

Post by drjohncarpenter »

The release of Ray Charles' 1954 single "I've Got A Woman" signaled a change in the landscape of popular music, its innovative sound drawn from jazz, blues and gospel.




541231_Atlantic 1050_Charles.JPG






Ray Charles "I've Got A Woman" (Atlantic 1050, December 1954)





The very first song Elvis Presley laid down at his first session for RCA, on January 10, 1956 in Nashville, was a cover of the smash Charles single. His dynamic recording would get slotted as the third cut on Side 1 of his debut album for the label, released two months later.




560300_RCA 1254_Side 1_Presley.JPG
Image: courtesy of the great website, elvisrecords.com
--> http://www.elvisrecords.com/lpm-1254-elvis-presley/







Elvis Presley "I Got A Woman" Elvis Presley (RCA Victor LPM-1254, March 24, 1956)





Elvis, Scotty and Bill had been tearing up concerts with their version of the song for the past year, and at least one attempt is made to cut it at Sun Records in early 1955. Sadly, that tape is now lost.




550903_live in Dallas.JPG
With Scotty Moore, D.J. Fontana and Bill Black, Dallas, TX - Saturday, September 3, 1955
Image:
courtesy of A Boy From Tupelo (Follow That Dream, August 16, 2012)





Charles evidently did not like the Presley arrangement at all, and considered the young singer an opportunist. It seems possible, though, the royalty checks for Elvis' 1956 RCA recording might have assuaged Ray's discomfort just a tad.




550000_Ray Charles_Mitch Thomas Show.JPG
Ray Charles on "The Mitch Thomas Show," WPFH-TV, Channel 12 (Wilmington) - circa Sep-Oct 1955
Photo:
PBS documentary "Black Philadelphia Memories" (WHYY-TV Wilmington, NC - Wednesday, August 4, 1999)
It was one of the first televised dance shows for black teen-agers.





But what of the two master recordings?

Each is a stunning example of popular music at its innovative best. Charles was 24 when he made his record, Elvis just two days past the age of 21.

I asked a good friend, a professional musician and music teacher who never paid close attention to either release, to give both a thorough listen.

Below is what he had to say.

It's more than a little enlightening, in fact it's brilliant, and I hope you enjoy learning something NEW about these landmark recordings!




One main difference between the versions is the mood, and you could describe this difference in terms of where the vocals sit on the main beat.

It feels to me as though Ray is a little behind the beat, just a hair, and very soulfully so. Whereas Elvis doesn’t feel soulful to me at all.

On the contrary, I feel that Elvis is right up over and on top of and in front of the beat. As though his raw energy is bursting out of the confines of the song, he’s charging out of it, it’s not strong enough to contain him.

As an example, listen to the second verse of each cut (the one with "… early in the morning ... just for me …"). Note how Elvis handles the transition from about 45 seconds to 55 seconds. He literally cannot stop – his drive and power are too much.

Now contrast that with Ray’s version. Ray also builds each line of that verse higher and higher, and more powerfully each time, but listen to his restraint and control. Especially choice is his "oh yeah" at ~1:20 that leads to the solo.

So you’re looking at a question, essentially, of two sides of male sexuality expressed in voice. Elvis is raw and forthright, explosive, powerful, strident, and take-no-prisoners. Ray is impassioned, passionate, subtle, smooth, seductive, and grounded in the self-confidence that comes from mastery and control.

Neither is more "powerful", per se, than the other. They are night and day, moon and sun. It is a fascinating contrast.

I would be interested to know the respective ages of the artists when these tracks were cut, and where they were in their careers. To me, it almost sounds as though Elvis is proving something, that – in a way – he’s trying to fu
'ck the whole world in the ear (and I mean that in a very good way, lest you misunderstand).

By the same token, it seems to me that Ray sounds more established, as though he doesn’t have anything to prove. And yet I know nothing about the historical context here – it could be just the other way around, of course, and their deliveries are merely reflections of their unique artistic character and not intrinsically tied to their material circumstances at the time.

Next, I note the call-and-response character of Ray’s cut. Note the horns that answer Ray’s every line. Those three beautiful, melted gold horn blasts help give it some of the bounce that seems so laid back, even though the track is quite fast.

Elvis’ version, however, is much rawer. Those three horn blasts are entirely missing. Notably, in their place there is a very subtle but unmistakable three beat percussion hit that drops in and out throughout the track, tack tack tack. But other than that, there is nothing but space. Elvis is playing faster, too. Not radically faster, but notably so. Maybe 5-10 bpm quicker.

Of course they weren’t playing to metronomes (thank God), so we can interpret this correctly I think as another sign of Elvis’ energy and enthusiasm, contrasted with Ray’s restraint and self-mastery. Even though both tracks are very quick and uptempo, Elvis would be the jackrabbit in the race, and Ray the smooth, sexy turtle.

Another thing I note about the production is the mic placement and treatment, or lack thereof. Ray is up close, as though he’s really just sharing secrets with you, his friend. Ray’s voice is raw and untreated. I hear nothing on it at all. So brave, so beautiful. Elvis, on the other hand, seems to have a slapback echo on his voice. He’s also further back in the mix. I don’t feel the intimacy of Ray’s take.

On the contrary, I feel like I’m at a party and he’s playing. And he’s smoking hot and we’re all dancing, but there he is, up on the stage, and he is the sun and he is afire, but we are not together. He is separate. Whereas with Ray, I feel we are on the same level somehow. I feel a strange intimacy, as though it really is the two of us and he’s filling me in about his life and his love.

Finally, the solos are as different as could be. The sax on Ray’s cut betrays a profound working knowledge of harmony and melody, and is so tasty it really is out of this world. But listen to how the chords under the solo are entirely different. This progression would not sound out of place on a Louis Armstrong cut, actually. They come out of nowhere and you’re so enraptured by the tone of the sax that you don’t quite realize that it’s an entirely new chord progression here. And it never repeats. This is an incredibly powerful and very subtle trick and comes from superior musicianship at every level. True mastery, of course, is rarely noticed.

The solo on Elvis’ cut is radically different, displaying none of the subtle musical tricks of Ray’s original. The chord progression keeps pretty much the same chords as in the verses, but what it lacks in musicianship it makes up for in raw energy and feeling. It is almost a frenzy of a solo, like a train that is barreling down the tracks and just when you think it’s going to tip and crash… They bring it all to a stop with tremendous precision and control, and the snare-kick break that, honestly, goes right to the heart of every person with ears and a heart.

This is where Elvis’ musicianship and showmanship come into play. What a great way out of that solo. It is killer, straight to the heart. (Incidentally, note the two piano mis-hits as the breakdown section winds up back to the main bit.) So when they return to the main bit, the cool relief of being "safe" again washes over you and floods your brain with endorphins. We are back "home", musically speaking.

This is what music is, of course – it’s a tenuous, trying dance in which a composer establishes a comfort zone ("home"), pushes you out of it, and then brings you back. So you feel "ahhhhhhhh!" when you return. That’s all Mozart does, really, when you boil it down. And it is exactly what is happening here, with Elvis:

1) Powerful train picking up speed
2) Train barreling down the track
3) Dear God, save us from the train that is almost out of control
4) Dead stop – hey, we know now who’s in control
5) Sweet return to "home"
6) Delicious outro of all deliciousness

And of course I should discuss the outro. Here, Elvis comes to a full stop again. And he tacks on this incredibly tasteful outro from left field. And it brings the song to close in such a perfect way that, even all these decades later, I can hear the panties hitting the floor.

To backtrack a bit, Ray’s song introduces a new secret chord progression for the solo, and then comes the breakdown section, which serves as breathing room for a spell. It is different, of course, from Elvis’ version, because it doesn’t benefit as much from the overabundant speed – and therefore contrast - of the full stop. Still, it is a welcome change and exists, I believe, just to sweeten the return to the final verse. Ray’s song fades out and has nothing even remotely approaching Elvis’ more theatrical, stage-y take on things.

In a way, it seems as though Ray is going to continue ambling along his way, whereas Elvis has in essence fu
'cked you good and hard and proper, and now it is done, and there is no question he’s done, good night.

Those are the differences I hear in the tracks. To sum up:

1) Beat – slightly lagging behind the beat vs. way all on top of it
2) Mood – restrained, mature sexuality vs. confident young braggadocio
3) Production differences – call and response arrangement, mic placement, vocal treatment, intimacy vs. performance
4) Differing musical choices for solo and outro


That’s about all I got for now. Thanks for the tunes – they’re great.






What a time for music!


Thanks to FECC member Bill Tanner for the inspiration.




BONUS RAY


Billboard - January 29, 1955
Can you see how many songs Elvis performed or recorded by these artists, he loved the Atlantic label!\


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067064

Post by billyblues »

Thanks Doc for a great topic and discussion. I never paid much attention to Charles' original until now, to be honest. Listened to the YT video in your post and it's a nice version, although I still prefer Elvis'. Can't stop our hero back in '56 rockin' this song like no other man!

I don't have as beautiful words as your friend to describe this one but then again that's Elvis: throw all your words all you want, he's still the guy who's king of the inexpressible. Prince from another planet? Sometimes I think he's more like "Conqueror of All Worlds"!
Last edited by billyblues on Thu Aug 09, 2012 7:24 am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by ale »

I'm a RC fan too...and really enjoy his music, the guy was a genius really!
what I like about the E version is that it's really different from the origynal...faster...played and sang with lot of energy.
What I never understood about Ray is why he didn't like Elvis...I mean...why deny the great music this young man was making?? :roll:




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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by Rtn 2 Sndr »

Excellent! it is truly interesting to read a technical discussion of Ray vs. Elvis and their approach to this classic tune.

Thanks, DJC!


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by Rich_TCB »

To me, it almost sounds as though Elvis is proving something, that – in a way – he’s trying to fu.ck the whole world in the ear (and I mean that in a very good way, lest you misunderstand).
What a great line that is - made me smile.

That was fun to read, Doc. Thanks :smt023


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by Steelback »

Thanks Doc. That's the kind of read that makes this board great.



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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by bquick »

Great read...brilliant comparison and neat idea to consult with a music professor to compare versions. I hope this is not the last time we hear about this professor...like a great steak, it's so juicy I want more! Kudos Doc.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by colonel snow »

I got a woman by Ray Charles is not the original. He re-wrote lyrics to the tune It mus be Jesus by The Southern Tones (Duke 205) from early 1954.

here is the link




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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067153

Post by billyblues »

Colonel snow, thanks for the info! I never heard about that one. Great find.

PS.: Elvis' ending for the song has more in common with this one than Charles'.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067171

Post by mysterytrainrideson »

Great thread, doc. Keep it up!
Doc you wrote, "the royalty checks for the RCA recording must have assuaged Rays discomfort a tad"...i would think so. And not only that, it was Elvis' version that caused everybody else to record it, so Ray has a lot to thank him for.

And of course, The Beatle's god awful version (based on presleys) must have made him a zonk load of money too.
I love The beatles, but their version is rubbish.

I love Rays original, it's a classic! But really, you can't compare the two because their a different genre of music. Rays is classic R&B and Elvis' is R'n'R all the way.


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"I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by TheCoolKing »

Great topic Doc!
This is a very good read.



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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

Rich_TCB wrote:
To me, it almost sounds as though Elvis is proving something, that – in a way – he’s trying to fu.ck the whole world in the ear (and I mean that in a very good way, lest you misunderstand).
What a great line that is - made me smile.

That was fun to read, Doc. Thanks :smt023
Thanks. Although it seems not everyone is reading the analysis closely (or at all), it is very insightful nonetheless. It's also funny. These two quotes are examples of this:
Finally, the solos are as different as could be. The sax on Ray’s cut betrays a profound working knowledge of harmony and melody, and is so tasty it really is out of this world. But listen to how the chords under the solo are entirely different. This progression would not sound out of place on a Louis Armstrong cut, actually. They come out of nowhere and you’re so enraptured by the tone of the sax that you don’t quite realize that it’s an entirely new chord progression here. And it never repeats. This is an incredibly powerful and very subtle trick and comes from superior musicianship at every level. True mastery, of course, is rarely noticed.
And of course I should discuss the outro. Here, Elvis comes to a full stop again. And he tacks on this incredibly tasteful outro from left field. And it brings the song to close in such a perfect way that, even all these decades later, I can hear the panties hitting the floor.

[snip]

In a way, it seems as though Ray is going to continue ambling along his way, whereas Elvis has in essence fu.cked you good and hard and proper, and now it is done, and there is no question he’s done, good night.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by Joe Car »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Rich_TCB wrote:
To me, it almost sounds as though Elvis is proving something, that – in a way – he’s trying to fu.ck the whole world in the ear (and I mean that in a very good way, lest you misunderstand).
What a great line that is - made me smile.

That was fun to read, Doc. Thanks :smt023
Thanks. Although it seems not everyone is reading the analysis closely (or at all), it is very insightful nonetheless. It's also funny. These two quotes are examples of this:
Finally, the solos are as different as could be. The sax on Ray’s cut betrays a profound working knowledge of harmony and melody, and is so tasty it really is out of this world. But listen to how the chords under the solo are entirely different. This progression would not sound out of place on a Louis Armstrong cut, actually. They come out of nowhere and you’re so enraptured by the tone of the sax that you don’t quite realize that it’s an entirely new chord progression here. And it never repeats. This is an incredibly powerful and very subtle trick and comes from superior musicianship at every level. True mastery, of course, is rarely noticed.
And of course I should discuss the outro. Here, Elvis comes to a full stop again. And he tacks on this incredibly tasteful outro from left field. And it brings the song to close in such a perfect way that, even all these decades later, I can hear the panties hitting the floor.

[snip]

In a way, it seems as though Ray is going to continue ambling along his way, whereas Elvis has in essence fu.cked you good and hard and proper, and now it is done, and there is no question he’s done, good night.
It's a brilliant piece of writing. I like Ray's version, but Elvis' cut just grabs hold of you, with his quicker beat, in essence the style he had ushered in. Certain songs Elvis loved and performed in whole career, this was certainly one of them. Well done Doc and as always, much appreciated.



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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

colonel snow wrote:I got a woman by Ray Charles is not the original. He re-wrote lyrics to the tune It mus be Jesus by The Southern Tones (Duke 205) from early 1954.
No, the song is a Ray Charles original.

"It Must Be Jesus" was a mid-1954 release on Duke Records, and there are certainly elements of this that Charles incorporated into "I've Got A Woman," but one listen to Duke 205 proves it was not "covered" by Charles with new lyrics. In fact, the gospel and folk roots of the song heard on Atlantic 1050 have been a part of the process long before the summer of 1954, including much earlier gospel cuts in the public domain.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

mysterytrainrideson wrote:And not only that, it was Elvis' version that caused everybody else to record it, so Ray has a lot to thank him for.
Elvis inspired most, if not all, of the covers by rock artists, but not every known version. The Atlantic single was huge and influential in its own right.

mysterytrainrideson wrote:And of course, The Beatle's god awful version (based on presleys) must have made him a zonk load of money too.
I love The beatles, but their version is rubbish.
Probably not a zonk load, or at least not until 1995.

The Beatles covered the song twice, on BBC Radio only, in July 1963 and March 1964, and the former was not issued until late 1994, on Live at the BBC.

Most fans do not consider anything on that essential 2 CD set "rubbish." In particular, Lennon's lead vocal on each Beatles version of "I Got A Woman" is superb, the latter (officially unissued) is even double-tracked, a rarity for the BBC Radio sessions. It's so cool to hear the Elvis influence so loud and clear on a Beatles performance, as they never released any of their Elvis covers while active.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067226

Post by zolderopruiming1 »

In Ray, a fantastic movie about Ray Charles, Ray got a lot of flack because he transferred a gospel into the devil's music.



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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by colonel snow »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
colonel snow wrote:I got a woman by Ray Charles is not the original. He re-wrote lyrics to the tune It mus be Jesus by The Southern Tones (Duke 205) from early 1954.
No, the song is a Ray Charles original.

"It Must Be Jesus" was a mid-1954 release on Duke Records, and there are certainly elements of this that Charles incorporated into "I've Got A Woman," but one listen to Duke 205 proves it was not "covered" by Charles with new lyrics. In fact, the gospel and folk roots of the song heard on Atlantic 1050 have been a part of the process long before the summer of 1954, including much earlier gospel cuts in the public domain.

I can live with this explanation.

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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by mysterytrainrideson »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
mysterytrainrideson wrote:And not only that, it was Elvis' version that caused everybody else to record it, so Ray has a lot to thank him for.
Elvis inspired most, if not all, of the covers by rock artists, but not every known version. The Atlantic single was huge and influential in its own right.

mysterytrainrideson wrote:And of course, The Beatle's god awful version (based on presleys) must have made him a zonk load of money too.
I love The beatles, but their version is rubbish.
Probably not a zonk load, or at least not until 1995.

The Beatles covered the song twice, on BBC Radio only, in July 1963 and March 1964, and the former was not issued until late 1994, on Live at the BBC.

Most fans do not consider anything on that essential 2 CD set "rubbish." In particular, Lennon's lead vocal on each Beatles version of "I Got A Woman" is superb, the latter (officially unissued) is even double-tracked, a rarity for the BBC Radio sessions. It's so cool to hear the Elvis influence so loud and clear on a Beatles performance, as they never released any of their Elvis covers while active.
I didn't say everything on "Live at the BBC" CD is rubbish. George Harrisons guitar playing on some of those cover versions are a bit naff. But i love the CD because it give you a great insight into the love they had for Elvis, Carl, Buddy etc. The guys that really influenced them.
Unfortunately, their "I Got A woman" is not earth-shattering to my ears, anyway.

These are the sort of threads i want to read more of, great topics and good conversations. I don't want to read stupid threads like: "what jumpsuit did he wear on such and such date?", stupid impersonators, "did you dream about Elvis last night?"
The more we get of threads like this, the more i want to respond to them...


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067410

Post by Good Time Charlie »

You got to get your friend posting on here Doc, I could read stuff like that all night long!

Great analysis, he was spot on about where they were in their respective careers. It was great hearing an 'outsiders' unbiased take on on the two versions, spoken with deep musical knowledge, and eloquence.

"I Got a Woman", is one of my favourite songs of all time - but it is possibly the only song where I literally cannot make up my mind over which version I like better. One day it'll be Ray, one day it'll be Elvis.

Ray's version is a better track to dance to I know that!


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

Good Time Charlie wrote:You got to get your friend posting on here Doc, I could read stuff like that all night long!
He's not that crazy.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by drjohncarpenter »

Joe Car wrote:It's a brilliant piece of writing. I like Ray's version, but Elvis' cut just grabs hold of you, with his quicker beat, in essence the style he had ushered in. Certain songs Elvis loved and performed in whole career, this was certainly one of them. Well done Doc and as always, much appreciated.
Thanks.

The Charles and Presley versions are so different to my ears, they're like two different songs. But each is an incredible listen. I agree, my friend's review is brilliant indeed. It makes you want to listen closely to each recording, and savor the greatness.


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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by George Smith »

Hugely enjoyable read, John, thank you.

I think Elvis recognised it for the classic it was as soon as he heard it on the radio in early '55.



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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

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Post by rjm »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Good Time Charlie wrote:You got to get your friend posting on here Doc, I could read stuff like that all night long!
He's not that crazy.
Guess not, but he's a brilliant writer! Especially about music. A real "Marcus"-ian flair! Fantastic. Thank you so much for sharing this fellow's analysis, whoever he is! Really enjoyed it.

I had read it came from something called "I Got A Savior." Well, in any case, it's gospel-rooted. The whole concept of "covers" and "originals" doesn't apply to this type of music. It's a shared language that progressed and changed and progressed some more. Everyone who contributed deserves the credit.

What do you think?

..

rjm (I think the point is the opposite of what this guy is saying in the video: Charles no more "stole" his version from Gospel sources than Elvis "stole" a song that sounds like a different song! Everyone gets the credit.)


"And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."
Aeschylus

"Treat me mean and cruel, treat me like a fool, but love me!"

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rjm
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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1067992

Post by rjm »

One more thing. I wish your friend, Doc, had got a chance to hear the 1968 rehearsal version. It's hard to imagine what he might have thought of that burning thing! (No horns, no nothing but guitars and percussion, and total wildness!)

I go for the '68 version over ANY of 'em! Can't help it.

Thanks again!!!

rjm


"And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God."
Aeschylus

"Treat me mean and cruel, treat me like a fool, but love me!"

My Tumblr blog: https://robinmark64.tumblr.com/

https://www.youtube.com/user/robinmark64

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Chris Roberts
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Re: "I Got A Woman" --> Ray or Elvis? It's No Mystery!

#1068067

Post by Chris Roberts »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Good Time Charlie wrote:You got to get your friend posting on here Doc, I could read stuff like that all night long!
He's not that crazy.
That makes you extremely crazy then Doc, with 46596 posts :lol:

Like the others I would like to say thanks for another great topic, please do try to rub some of your craziness onto your friend though, as I would love to hear his take on other Elvis covers.


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