Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

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Re: Elvis Recorded

Post by mike edwards66 »

rjm wrote:Because I know you like to ruffle feathers.
Thanks, Robin. I don't so much ruffle 'em as pluck 'em. They know.

rjm wrote:And thank you for the warm welcome back! And I mean that.

It's great to have you back! And I mean that.



OK. Back on topic. Here's how I see it:


1972 - Elvis reconfirms, in a matter of fact manner, that "Tiger Man" was the "second record" that he "ever recorded".


1970 - Elvis refers to "Tiger Man" as the second record he ever recorded, and gives a cryptic clue that "not too many people heard it.....". This is because one of the few people that had "heard it" shows up, hangs around for a while and sparks Elvis' memory.


1968 - More of a statement of intent. After years in the "wilderness", Elvis is telling us that, contrary to what we may have heard, he is the still the king of the jungle!


1953/4 - After recording "My Happiness" at Sun with Marion Keisker at the helm, and whilst waiting hopefully for Sam Phillips to contact him, Elvis made a second record, the second that he ever recorded, at another recording service. This is outside the box, but totally plausible. As Ernst Jorgensen noted, after Elvis recorded "My Happiness", "...weeks and months went by and he heard nothing.......he couldn't stand it anymore......."


drjohncarpenter wrote:
mike edwards66 wrote:OK. Outside the box notion. When Elvis said "that was my second record, that I ever recorded" he was speaking literally. After recording "My Happiness" at Sun with Marion Keisker at the helm, and whilst waiting hopefully for Sam Phillips to contact him, Elvis made a second record at another recording service.
Yeah, too bad it doesn't work.
Yeah? Why is that, exactly. Please elaborate.
>>>


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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by Davelee »

Just a thought: I wonder if he ever performed Tiger Man live in either 54 or 55. Considering it was nearly his second record there's a possibility he may have done so as a filler for his live shows in the very early days - finding a live version from this time period would be just as great a found as the studio cut. Of course, there's nothing written down to say he performed it live but then not everything is known what he did between July 54 & Nov 55 - so it's a possibility.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Davelee wrote:Just a thought: I wonder if he ever performed Tiger Man live in either 54 or 55. Considering it was nearly his second record there's a possibility he may have done so as a filler for his live shows in the very early days - finding a live version from this time period would be just as great a found as the studio cut. Of course, there's nothing written down to say he performed it live but then not everything is known what he did between July 54 & Nov 55 - so it's a possibility.
Time continues to pass, and there's nothing concrete to suggest "Tiger Man" was performed back then. However, what are the chances when Elvis sang "Mystery Train" that he slipped in a bit of "Tiger Man," as we first heard in 1969? Our best hope to learn more is if new live recordings from 1955 surface. But, man, sixty-one years is a very long time to wait.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by MikeFromHolland »

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On a site by many people considered as quite reliable a possible recording date is even mentioned. Came across this today, by my surprise:
1954 08 15-19 Recording Sessions - Keith Flynn.png
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by drjohncarpenter »

The date and possible recording date is derived from this 2010 topic, and the discoveries made by my reviewing those 1970 audience tapes. Unfortunately, no credit for FECC or this topic is apparent anywhere on the page.

http://www.keithflynn.com/recording-sessions/540819.html

Yes, many of the naysayers who posted also are very big fans of Keith's dedicated session site, so this certainly becomes a sore spot.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by Davelee »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Davelee wrote:Just a thought: I wonder if he ever performed Tiger Man live in either 54 or 55. Considering it was nearly his second record there's a possibility he may have done so as a filler for his live shows in the very early days - finding a live version from this time period would be just as great a found as the studio cut. Of course, there's nothing written down to say he performed it live but then not everything is known what he did between July 54 & Nov 55 - so it's a possibility.
Time continues to pass, and there's nothing concrete to suggest "Tiger Man" was performed back then. However, what are the chances when Elvis sang "Mystery Train" that he slipped in a bit of "Tiger Man," as we first heard in 1969? Our best hope to learn more is if new live recordings from 1955 surface. But, man, sixty-one years is a very long time to wait.
You could be right. Maybe, just maybe, one of the reasons Elvis did the melody in '69 was because of the memory of doing it live in '55, but who knows. He did it with Shake, Rattle and Roll by adding Flip, Flop and Fly on the first Dorsey Show, if you know what I mean.

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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by poormadpeter2 »

from the article "I Like Elvis Presley" by Jock Carroll.

Elvis is quoted in the lengthy article as saying:

"Ah sang That's When Your Heartaches Begin and My Happiness. A couple of things the Inkspots were doing just then. Mistuh Phillips sat with his head buried in his hands - like this - for forty-five minutes. When ah finished he said 'you have a very interesting voice there.' He said he would call me some day and a year and a half later he did."

Considering the songs are correct - and the length of the interview - one has to assume that this was something Elvis actually said rather than a publicity machine statement. But is shows quite clearly that what Elvis said (the basis of the "Tiger Man was recorded") could not be trusted even three years after the events, let alone after sixteen.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by drjohncarpenter »

poormadpeter2 wrote:from the article "I Like Elvis Presley" by Jock Carroll.

Elvis is quoted in the lengthy article as saying:

"Ah sang That's When Your Heartaches Begin and My Happiness. A couple of things the Inkspots were doing just then. Mistuh Phillips sat with his head buried in his hands - like this - for forty-five minutes. When ah finished he said 'you have a very interesting voice there.' He said he would call me some day and a year and a half later he did."

Considering the songs are correct - and the length of the interview - one has to assume that this was something Elvis actually said rather than a publicity machine statement. But is shows quite clearly that what Elvis said (the basis of the "Tiger Man was recorded") could not be trusted even three years after the events, let alone after sixteen.
This was already addressed on the topic, please go back and see where you are mistaken.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by poormadpeter2 »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
poormadpeter2 wrote:from the article "I Like Elvis Presley" by Jock Carroll.

Elvis is quoted in the lengthy article as saying:

"Ah sang That's When Your Heartaches Begin and My Happiness. A couple of things the Inkspots were doing just then. Mistuh Phillips sat with his head buried in his hands - like this - for forty-five minutes. When ah finished he said 'you have a very interesting voice there.' He said he would call me some day and a year and a half later he did."

Considering the songs are correct - and the length of the interview - one has to assume that this was something Elvis actually said rather than a publicity machine statement. But is shows quite clearly that what Elvis said (the basis of the "Tiger Man was recorded") could not be trusted even three years after the events, let alone after sixteen.
This was already addressed on the topic, please go back and see where you are mistaken.
I'm not mistaken, I can read the article perfectly well. Clearly you can't.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by davide »

Not sure this quote has been included in this topic….

Regarding the Sit down Segment for the 68 TV Special.


Scotty Moore: He went into a bunch of old stuff that he'd never recorded. Stuff that he used to sit around the house and play when everybody?s around having a good time. Really what that whole thing amounted to was a good time for everybody.

The songs Scotty Moore could be referring to above would be either:
Baby What You Want Me To Do and or Tiger Man ?

TIGER MAN

Scotty Moore: He never even mentioned the song, he?d just start playing. You need to look at that thing, especially look at my expression (laughs). I had no idea what was coming next. He didn?t either, really, they just told him to get up there and be loose, just do whatever you feel like doing.

Quotes taken from ELVIS 68 COMEBACK RADIO SPECIAL
One-hour radio special set to premiere in August 2008 celebrates the 40th anniversary of Elvis Presley's '68 Comeback Special. Original program director Steve Binder, guitarist Scotty Moore and others look back on how this became a turning point in Elvis' career, as well as one of the most iconic music specials in TV history.
https://beta.prx.org/stories/27583
With thanks
Davide
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Thanks for the addition to the topic.

The memories from Scotty Moore are interesting, but they are also quite open-ended. So they do not necessarily refer to "Tiger Man."

The "old stuff that he'd never recorded" might be referring to Frankie Laine's "That's My Desire,' Sonny James' "Young Love" or Don Howard's "Oh, Happy Day," all of which they ran through during the small combo, backstage rehearsals.

Further, it's doubtful Scotty did any "sitting around the house" and jamming with Elvis after the 1950s, and "Baby What You Want Me To Do" was a late 1959 release by Jimmy Reed. So he would not have been aware of that song as "old stuff."

Finally, Moore is also on record as not well remembering songs from the early days, as I posted on page 11 of this topic:

I have read that Elvis sang the Platters-hit 'Only You' live in 1955/56. Was it performed on more than one occasion?

Yes, I think so. I remember doing it, but I don't remember any dates. We did it some, but not very much.

And 'Rock Around The Clock'?

We tried that a few times, that was really in the very early days. I don't think it ever got recorded on tape, live or anything.

They recently found Louisiana Hayride recordings of "Hearts Of Stone" and "Little Mama"

Who is "they"?

Ernst Jorgensen from RCA

I remember 'Hearts Of Stone', but I don't remember the other song.

It's a Clovers song, and there's steel and piano on it

We used the other guys on there some. Steel players, drummers...

Floyd Cramer also played at the Hayride, didn't he?

Yeah, but I don't remember him playing anything with us at the Hayride. He played some clubdates with us. There's another guy that I do remember playing piano with us, and his name is Leon Post. See, it was a big stage with different acts, and they all intermingled. It was like a big family. It was like: "Hey c'mon, play with me on that song" - you know, that kind of thing. That's how we ended up with piano and steel sometimes.

Can you remember if you, Elvis and Bill performed on Roy Orbison's television-show on KOSA in Odessa, Texas in 1955?

We may have, I don't know. I don't remember it.

Scotty Moore Interview - By Arjan Deelen - June 19, 2001
http://www.tonkoorevaar.be/Always-Elvis-2/elvis-on-video/interviews/interview-scotty-moore.htm
Thanks again for the share.


davide on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:23 am wrote:Not sure this quote has been included in this topic….

Regarding the Sit down Segment for the 68 TV Special.


Scotty Moore: He went into a bunch of old stuff that he'd never recorded. Stuff that he used to sit around the house and play when everybody?s around having a good time. Really what that whole thing amounted to was a good time for everybody.

The songs Scotty Moore could be referring to above would be either:
Baby What You Want Me To Do and or Tiger Man ?

TIGER MAN

Scotty Moore: He never even mentioned the song, he?d just start playing. You need to look at that thing, especially look at my expression (laughs). I had no idea what was coming next. He didn?t either, really, they just told him to get up there and be loose, just do whatever you feel like doing.

Quotes taken from ELVIS 68 COMEBACK RADIO SPECIAL
One-hour radio special set to premiere in August 2008 celebrates the 40th anniversary of Elvis Presley's '68 Comeback Special. Original program director Steve Binder, guitarist Scotty Moore and others look back on how this became a turning point in Elvis' career, as well as one of the most iconic music specials in TV history.
https://beta.prx.org/stories/27583
With thanks
Davide
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by davide »

drjohncarpenter on Sat Dec 09, 2017 10:53 pm wrote:Thanks for the addition to the topic.


The memories from Scotty Moore are interesting, but they are also quite open-ended. So they do not necessarily refer to "Tiger Man."

Yes I agree they are interesting - though non-conclusive, but see my notes below.

The "old stuff that he'd never recorded" might be referring to Frankie Laine's "That's My Desire,' Sonny James' "Young Love" or Don Howard's "Oh, Happy Day," all of which they ran through during the small combo, backstage rehearsals.
My feelings are that Scotty is making reference to the broadcast version and not the rehearsals you mention above.

Further, it's doubtful Scotty did any "sitting around the house" and jamming with Elvis after the 1950s, and "Baby What You Want Me To Do" was a late 1959 release by Jimmy Reed. So he would not have been aware of that song as "old stuff."
We know Scotty did visit Graceland to rehearse for the Memphis shows, in the February of 1961.

Finally, Moore is also on record as not well remembering songs from the early days, as I posted on page 11 of this topic:
Yes, I acknowledge this
I have read that Elvis sang the Platters-hit 'Only You' live in 1955/56. Was it performed on more than one occasion?

Yes, I think so. I remember doing it, but I don't remember any dates. We did it some, but not very much.

And 'Rock Around The Clock'?

We tried that a few times, that was really in the very early days. I don't think it ever got recorded on tape, live or anything.

They recently found Louisiana Hayride recordings of "Hearts Of Stone" and "Little Mama"

Who is "they"?

Ernst Jorgensen from RCA

I remember 'Hearts Of Stone', but I don't remember the other song.

It's a Clovers song, and there's steel and piano on it

We used the other guys on there some. Steel players, drummers...

Floyd Cramer also played at the Hayride, didn't he?

Yeah, but I don't remember him playing anything with us at the Hayride. He played some clubdates with us. There's another guy that I do remember playing piano with us, and his name is Leon Post. See, it was a big stage with different acts, and they all intermingled. It was like a big family. It was like: "Hey c'mon, play with me on that song" - you know, that kind of thing. That's how we ended up with piano and steel sometimes.

Can you remember if you, Elvis and Bill performed on Roy Orbison's television-show on KOSA in Odessa, Texas in 1955?

We may have, I don't know. I don't remember it.

Scotty Moore Interview - By Arjan Deelen - June 19, 2001
http://www.tonkoorevaar.be/Always-Elvis-2/elvis-on-video/interviews/interview-scotty-moore.htm
Thanks again for the share.

No problem, and lets hope there is conclusive answer to the mystery sooner rather then later..
Davide


davide on Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:23 am wrote:Not sure this quote has been included in this topic….

Regarding the Sit down Segment for the 68 TV Special.


Scotty Moore: He went into a bunch of old stuff that he'd never recorded. Stuff that he used to sit around the house and play when everybody?s around having a good time. Really what that whole thing amounted to was a good time for everybody.

The songs Scotty Moore could be referring to above would be either:
Baby What You Want Me To Do and or Tiger Man ?

TIGER MAN

Scotty Moore: He never even mentioned the song, he?d just start playing. You need to look at that thing, especially look at my expression (laughs). I had no idea what was coming next. He didn?t either, really, they just told him to get up there and be loose, just do whatever you feel like doing.

Quotes taken from ELVIS 68 COMEBACK RADIO SPECIAL
One-hour radio special set to premiere in August 2008 celebrates the 40th anniversary of Elvis Presley's '68 Comeback Special. Original program director Steve Binder, guitarist Scotty Moore and others look back on how this became a turning point in Elvis' career, as well as one of the most iconic music specials in TV history.
https://beta.prx.org/stories/27583
With thanks
Davide
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by Mike Windgren »

Hi there!! :D :D :D.

davide, the said Special is: THE ELVIS PRESLEY '68 COMEBACK RADIO SPECIAL "US Promo Only CD Radio Show"? :wink:. Bye for now :smt006.

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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by Erhan »

Scotty Moore tells the story about the early recording tapes.
You can understand what did happened Tiger Man at 14:50



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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by Rob »

Well, if the mystery wasn't solved before, it is now.

That explains everything.
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Erhan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:33 pm
Scotty Moore tells the story about the early recording tapes.
You can understand what did happened Tiger Man at 14:50





Erhan

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https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by skabillyrebels »

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Fri Mar 27, 2020 3:56 am
Erhan wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:33 pm
Scotty Moore tells the story about the early recording tapes.
You can understand what did happened Tiger Man at 14:50





Erhan

.Read again.
say please it cost nothing to be nice

https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by Greg1995 »

Maybe finally something worth adding to the discussion....

From the book "An Unseen Light: Black Struggles for Freedom in Memphis, Tennessee (Civil Rights and Struggle)" – March 8, 2018
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by drjohncarpenter »

Greg1995 wrote:
Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:37 am
Maybe finally something worth adding to the discussion....

From the book "An Unseen Light: Black Struggles for Freedom in Memphis, Tennessee (Civil Rights and Struggle)" – March 8, 2018
cover1.jpg
page.jpg
Page 1:
Rufus Thomas, Jr. "Tiger Man (King of The Jungle)" (Sun 188, July 1953)
https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284

Page 30, 33, 68 and 75:
Rufus Thomas, Jr."Bear Cat (THE ANSWER TO HOUND DOG)" (Sun 181, March 1953)
https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284&p=1506457#p1506457
https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284&p=1506861#p1506861
https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284&p=1534484#p1534484
https://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=55284&p=1539784#p1539784


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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by DarkShade »

I don't know if this has been pointed out yet in this thread or not but according to the official Sony Legacy Elvis Presley website, www.elvisthemusic.com, Elvis did attempt "Tiger Man" while at Sun Records.

https://www.elvisthemusic.com/music/singer-presents-elvis-singing-flaming-star-and-others/
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Re: Elvis Recorded "Tiger Man" At Sun --> Mystery Solved ?

Post by jetblack »

DarkShade wrote:
Sat Apr 03, 2021 8:10 pm
I don't know if this has been pointed out yet in this thread or not but according to the official Sony Legacy Elvis Presley website, www.elvisthemusic.com, Elvis did attempt "Tiger Man" while at Sun Records.

https://www.elvisthemusic.com/music/singer-presents-elvis-singing-flaming-star-and-others/
Without any solid evidence everything to do with 'Tiger Man' being tried or recorded at Sun is pure conjecture.

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