Ready for an AI-Boosted ‘Sun Sessions’? Inside the Elvis Presley Archives with Ernst Jorgensen

[drjohncarpenter]

Thanks. Painful indeed. More hope for the ones not sent to Indianapolis having initially survived and possibly 'helped' out of an RCA building and sold on, but if so seems likely they would have surfaced somewhere by now. However even the ones sent to Indy, you'd think if just getting destroyed some RCA employee would have seen the value in keeping them for themselves. Perhaps the policing of the tapes being destroyed was really quite strict for fear of them falling into the wrong hands? However it didn't seem to stop master reels they did actually deem important to keep finding a way out of their storage facility...

The boxes holding the reels could've just had RCA matrix numbers written on them. A person would have no idea what was inside. The dumping involved thousands of leftover recordings. Imagining a hardcore Presley fan worked at the storage facility in 1959, and would've seen and preserved any Elvis tapes, is beyond all possibility.

We are lucky with the music we still have, though.

[Gary Crawford]

Thanks. Painful indeed. More hope for the ones not sent to Indianapolis having initially survived and possibly 'helped' out of an RCA building and sold on, but if so seems likely they would have surfaced somewhere by now. However even the ones sent to Indy, you'd think if just getting destroyed some RCA employee would have seen the value in keeping them for themselves. Perhaps the policing of the tapes being destroyed was really quite strict for fear of them falling into the wrong hands? However it didn't seem to stop master reels they did actually deem important to keep finding a way out of their storage facility...

The boxes holding the reels could've just had RCA matrix numbers written on them. A person would have no idea what was inside. The dumping involved thousands of leftover recordings. Imagining a hardcore Presley fan worked at the storage facility in 1959, and would've seen and preserved any Elvis tapes, is beyond all possibility.

We are lucky with the music we still have, though.

Yeah, suppose it is pretty improbable. As you say there is not a shortage of what does exist and survived. We often hear how stingy RCA was with tape and associated cost, the other thing I wonder is whether they would have not just used the tapes to record over again....?

[Mike C]

The Harbor Lights tape was found in the desk of Steve Sholes after he died in 1968.

[Walter Hale 4]

I have an opposite angle, why aren't more of us calling Ernst out on the lack of 2 or 3 cd box of Elvis' sixties and early 70's authentic Mono singles as produced by RCA? These are a glaring omission in the Elvis recorded legacy.

Shame that more of us aren't complaining about it.

Maybe those tapes have been ditched so they only have the multi tracks available which means they would have to do bounce downs. But would they be exactly the same as the mono versions they mixed down for the original singles and could you be really sure. Are the few mono variants that FTD have put out within their Classic Album series taken from the original mono tapes that produced the original mono albums or are they simply recent bounce downs from recent digitised stereo tapes.

That’s why I did needle drop recordings of all my Elvis singles and compiled a couple of CDs because I knew then that I would be listening to the original mono single versions without any doubt whatsoever.

good one emjel,

I must admit i never considered it. It's certainly possible that BMG/SONY have ditched those original RCA mono tapes that produced the 60's and early 70's 45's. It probably explains why there is a lack of mono-only product. It would be a major tragedy if that was the case.

We've had stereo "fold-down's" some years ago, albeit unofficially, but nothing in the way of authentic mono.

[PiersEIN]

WOW, there's some real hypocrisy here from people who slammed me when I praised the amazing work that Anthony Stuchbury did on his Mono > Stereo SUN sessions - and his recent work on other RDM releases.
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/cd_review_Elvis-Presley-Rock-n-Roll-No1-Mono-2-Stereo.html

These were people who said that RCA and Ernst would NEVER consider releasing Elvis' MONO CLASSICS in stereo.
FECC members saying that any such suggestion was ridiculous.

and now that Ernst Jorgensen says that Elvis' SUN recordings in STEREO are "like a new revelation" suddenly this idea is a brilliant idea!
Well, who knew?

When I previously posted that Ernst was considering the idea and that it would happen - I was shot down in flames by the Usual Suspects.
Now who's a hypocrite?

Cheers
Piers

[drjohncarpenter]

WOW, there's some real hypocrisy here from people who slammed me when I praised the amazing work that Anthony Stuchbury did on his Mono > Stereo SUN sessions - and his recent work on other RDM releases.
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/cd_review_Elvis-Presley-Rock-n-Roll-No1-Mono-2-Stereo.html

These were people who said that RCA and Ernst would NEVER consider releasing Elvis' MONO CLASSICS in stereo.
FECC members saying that any such suggestion was ridiculous.

and now that Ernst Jorgensen says that Elvis' SUN recordings in STEREO are "like a new revelation" suddenly this idea is a brilliant idea!
Well, who knew?

When I previously posted that Ernst was considering the idea and that it would happen - I was shot down in flames by the Usual Suspects.
Now who's a hypocrite?

Cheers
Piers

That wasn't what was discussed when you got "shot down in flames."




You always bring the joy, don't you?

You twist what was said and done by RCA's Ernst Jørgensen.

Read the Rolling Stone article, it appears TWICE on page 1.

It's quite clear that:

• it was "a test remix of 'Good Rockin’ Tonight' using Jackson’s proprietary AI technology" . . . just ONE track

• Ernst found the result "still like a new revelation" . . . "still like" . . . the 1954 single is not diminished by the separation

The article is about professional engineering, using remarkable and very expensive technology. Not someone at home fiddling around with software on their computer.

And the cost may be prohibitive, as noted.

Carry on.

[sweetangeline]

WOW, there's some real hypocrisy here from people who slammed me when I praised the amazing work that Anthony Stuchbury did on his Mono > Stereo SUN sessions - and his recent work on other RDM releases.
http://www.elvisinfonet.com/cd_review_Elvis-Presley-Rock-n-Roll-No1-Mono-2-Stereo.html

These were people who said that RCA and Ernst would NEVER consider releasing Elvis' MONO CLASSICS in stereo.
FECC members saying that any such suggestion was ridiculous.

and now that Ernst Jorgensen says that Elvis' SUN recordings in STEREO are "like a new revelation" suddenly this idea is a brilliant idea!
Well, who knew?

When I previously posted that Ernst was considering the idea and that it would happen - I was shot down in flames by the Usual Suspects.
Now who's a hypocrite?

Cheers
Piers

...thought I would chime in here as well with the Mono to Stereo posts you have made previously, especially with regards to Sony doing this sooner than later. If you review those said posts you made, you will clearly see that your projected dates when this would happen have come and gone. Anyone here can predict a sunny day in the future because when it`s all said and done, one will come sooner or later so don`t let that ego get the best of you. The Memphis box set was rumored for a very long time since we first heard about it, like Elvis sang RELAX

[PiersEIN]

...thought I would chime in here as well with the Mono to Stereo posts you have made previously, especially with regards to Sony doing this sooner than later. If you review those said posts you made, you will clearly see that your projected dates when this would happen have come and gone.

sweetangeline, that's OK.
At the time I knew that Ernst was looking at doing MONO > STEREO. I said it WOULD be officially released, and I was right.
I knew he was checking out the SUN material (with AI DES) while the MEMPHIS set was being produced.
I knew Peter Jackson's team was involved.
But despite your persistence I could not state what I genuinely knew was happening behind the scenes, since that would be talking out of school.

So sadly the STEREO SUN sessions did not make the MEMPHIS box set.
But I did say that they would happen - only to be shot down in flames by the "Usual Suspects" who stated that Ernst would NEVER release Elvis' MONO masters in stereo.
You were not one of the "Usual Suspects" I was referring to since you were only asking questions - unlike some others around here who love to big-note themselves.

I am relaxed, I just find it sad that other FECC members don't understand that their old school ideas are outdated in 2024.
The "Usual Suspects" said some very nasty things about Anthony Stuchbury, once again due to a personal agenda, which I find rather disturbing.

No wonder Stuchbury and many others have left FECC due to on-going attacks.

Cheers
Piers

"Cut loose, life is worth the livin', when you're givin', come on relax"

[pmp]

I really don't see the point. It's not like these are recordings that sound crap as they are, and the way that they sound is part of what made them historic in the first place. By all means, try to improve recordings that don't sound very good to start with (such as soundboards or private recordings), but masters? Nope. It's a redundant enterprise - except that it means some fans will buy everything all over again.

[Domino]

Sam Philips would have recorded Elvis in stereo, had the tech been available. And so would the folks at RCA.

Maybe but they also might have used synthesizers and drum machines but that doesn't mean we should start adding them to update for 2024.
I say once AI gets used for Elvis recordings then they won't know when enough is enough.

[sweetangeline]

I really don't see the point. It's not like these are recordings that sound crap as they are, and the way that they sound is part of what made them historic in the first place. By all means, try to improve recordings that don't sound very good to start with (such as soundboards or private recordings), but masters? Nope. It's a redundant enterprise - except that it means some fans will buy everything all over again.

I would luv to see what could be done with these

[sweetangeline]

...thought I would chime in here as well with the Mono to Stereo posts you have made previously, especially with regards to Sony doing this sooner than later. If you review those said posts you made, you will clearly see that your projected dates when this would happen have come and gone.

sweetangeline, that's OK.
At the time I knew that Ernst was looking at doing MONO > STEREO. I said it WOULD be officially released, and I was right.
I knew he was checking out the SUN material (with AI DES) while the MEMPHIS set was being produced.
I knew Peter Jackson's team was involved.
But despite your persistence I could not state what I genuinely knew was happening behind the scenes, since that would be talking out of school.

So sadly the STEREO SUN sessions did not make the MEMPHIS box set.
But I did say that they would happen - only to be shot down in flames by the "Usual Suspects" who stated that Ernst would NEVER release Elvis' MONO masters in stereo.
You were not one of the "Usual Suspects" I was referring to since you were only asking questions - unlike some others around here who love to big-note themselves.

I am relaxed, I just find it sad that other FECC members don't understand that their old school ideas are outdated in 2024.
The "Usual Suspects" said some very nasty things about Anthony Stuchbury, once again due to a personal agenda, which I find rather disturbing.

No wonder Stuchbury and many others have left FECC due to on-going attacks.

Cheers
Piers

"Cut loose, life is worth the livin', when you're givin', come on relax"

there has been no announcement from Sony or Ernst for that matter (just talk about what he would like to do) and nobody is talking about one key factor, "expense" so until that is dealt with then it remains what it is, and right now as we speak that is not much. I enjoy the latest Elvis releases including MEMPHIS box set and those before, but they are not exactly selling in huge numbers (that doesn't bother me). Realistically, Sony would need to make a profit for this to happen and expense and timing is everything so the reality is we are most likely looking at a 50th Anniversary release (2027) if it happens at all and that`s just less than 3 years away. I suppose it`s possible to use this other anniversary scenario as a way in (signing with RCA in late 1955) so that would make the fall of next year (2025) a possibility 70th Anniversary, but is it really big enough now to get the sales numbers required?? Time will tell, but I don`t see anything happening for 1- 3 years, but if I`m wrong so be it.

[emjel]

...thought I would chime in here as well with the Mono to Stereo posts you have made previously, especially with regards to Sony doing this sooner than later. If you review those said posts you made, you will clearly see that your projected dates when this would happen have come and gone.

sweetangeline, that's OK.
At the time I knew that Ernst was looking at doing MONO > STEREO. I said it WOULD be officially released, and I was right.
I knew he was checking out the SUN material (with AI DES) while the MEMPHIS set was being produced.
I knew Peter Jackson's team was involved.
But despite your persistence I could not state what I genuinely knew was happening behind the scenes, since that would be talking out of school.

So sadly the STEREO SUN sessions did not make the MEMPHIS box set.
But I did say that they would happen - only to be shot down in flames by the "Usual Suspects" who stated that Ernst would NEVER release Elvis' MONO masters in stereo.
You were not one of the "Usual Suspects" I was referring to since you were only asking questions - unlike some others around here who love to big-note themselves.

I am relaxed, I just find it sad that other FECC members don't understand that their old school ideas are outdated in 2024.
The "Usual Suspects" said some very nasty things about Anthony Stuchbury, once again due to a personal agenda, which I find rather disturbing.

No wonder Stuchbury and many others have left FECC due to on-going attacks.

Cheers
Piers

"Cut loose, life is worth the livin', when you're givin', come on relax"

there has been no announcement from Sony or Ernst for that matter (just talk about what he would like to do) and nobody is talking about one key factor, "expense" so until that is dealt with then it remains what it is, and right now as we speak that is not much. I enjoy the latest Elvis releases including MEMPHIS box set and those before, but they are not exactly selling in huge numbers (that doesn't bother me). Realistically, Sony would need to make a profit for this to happen and expense and timing is everything so the reality is we are most likely looking at a 50th Anniversary release (2027) if it happens at all and that`s just less than 3 years away. I suppose it`s possible to use this other anniversary scenario as a way in (signing with RCA in late 1955) so that would make the fall of next year (2025) a possibility 70th Anniversary, but is it really big enough now to get the sales numbers required?? Time will tell, but I don`t see anything happening for 1- 3 years, but if I`m wrong so be it.

I agree with your timeline because if there is any consideration for this to happen, it has to be off the back of a strong marketing campaign, built around what is likely to be happening in August 2027. But they. and I mean not only Sony but other players too, will have to be careful not to oversaturated the market with this event with all kinds of projects, because there will be a danger of forcing buyers to make decisions on what to buy which could result in sales casualties for certain releases.

And this process especially using Jackson's software technique is extremely expensive but regardless of software used, it would be a time consuming project to get it right which adds to the production costs, so I would envisage a sales requirement of a lot more than recent releases and at least a couple of hundred thousand worldwide and in a pretty quick time.

Sony would want a reasonable quick return on money invested in such a project and not rely on drip feed sales over a few years - the first Nashville set including downloads and streaming sits at around 38k after four years, although I suspect the positive to help such a Sun stereo release happening would be that it would be a single disc with a more attractive sales price to help sales but I’m sure that the money men will be closely looking at project costs, not only in production, but marketing too.

And no doubt, all kinds of speculations on what is likely to happen or hope will happen, will start gearing up as we get closer to 2027. But three years is a long time off and as you say, time will tell.

[JimmyCool]

WOW, there's some real hypocrisy here from people who slammed me when I praised the amazing work that Anthony Stuchbury did on his Mono > Stereo SUN sessions - and his recent work on other RDM releases.

Amazing...?

[pmp]

I really don't see the point. It's not like these are recordings that sound crap as they are, and the way that they sound is part of what made them historic in the first place. By all means, try to improve recordings that don't sound very good to start with (such as soundboards or private recordings), but masters? Nope. It's a redundant enterprise - except that it means some fans will buy everything all over again.

I would luv to see what could be done with these

There's also the 50s live recordings, of course. How much could the AI separation techniques benefit things like Heart of Stone, for example? And, certainly, they can remove much extraneous noise when it comes to things like damaged acetates - even the cheap software available to everyone can demonstrate what AI is capable of in this regard, even if the cheap versions are not refined enough. But you get what you pay for. I certainly wouldn't mind hearing some of the private recordings with the people yapping in the background removed.

And if Sony can achieve sound similar to (or better than) what MRS achieved with their Tahoe and Opening Night 1972 releases when working on soundboards, there's certainly an option for them to present a disc of Elvis live rarities in excellent sound at some point.

But there is some irony that Ernst is talking about using AI in the future when a relatively cheap version could have removed some of the glitches on the new 1977 set.

[L Ray]

Piers is correct on this one. Sony will do these eventually. Listening to what has been done by others, the separation does make them sound clearer, fuller and the original music is still there in the stereo sound. I especially enjoy hearing Elvis' guitar better separated. IT WILL HAPPEN!!!

[emjel]

Piers is correct on this one. Sony will do these eventually. Listening to what has been done by others, the separation does make them sound clearer, fuller and the original music is still there in the stereo sound. I especially enjoy hearing Elvis' guitar better separated. IT WILL HAPPEN!!!

Only if they can show it will be financially viable to the accountants - it is not cheap with the amount of time involved and I doubt there will be any discounts coming from Jackson’s camp if they go with him.

[sweetangeline]

Piers is correct on this one. Sony will do these eventually. Listening to what has been done by others, the separation does make them sound clearer, fuller and the original music is still there in the stereo sound. I especially enjoy hearing Elvis' guitar better separated. IT WILL HAPPEN!!!

Only if they can show it will be financially viable to the accountants - it is not cheap with the amount of time involved and I doubt there will be any discounts coming from Jackson’s camp if they go with him.

...unless Sony don`t mind losing some money on this one...you would almost think some people here actually believe that

[Rockin_John]

I really don't see the point. It's not like these are recordings that sound crap as they are, and the way that they sound is part of what made them historic in the first place. By all means, try to improve recordings that don't sound very good to start with (such as soundboards or private recordings), but masters? Nope. It's a redundant enterprise - except that it means some fans will buy everything all over again.

Put the effort into the Hawaii '61 show instead....

[A. C. van Kuijk]

Sony has realized, that the fans are interested in buying stuff like this and MRS is giving it to them. They simply want their piece of the cake. However, I have listened to FROM ELVIS AT CHRISTMAS via Qobuz and the stereo incarnation of ELVIS' CHRISTMAS ALBUM sounds mighty fine. Today's archivements certainly cannot be compared to the fake stereo RCA introduced in the early 1960s. So: Why not?

[Elvis&Ginger]

I can see a greatest hits package where this technology is implemented on the monaural recordings and a release / expanded reissue of the 50s box set where it contains everything that was ever recorded in the 1950s, masters, outtakes, live recordings, interviews, home recordings, etc.

I also recall an interview with Baz Luhrmann where he said that Elvis's 1950s recordings couldn't be used in his biopic film due to the limitations of the recordings, implying that because they were mostly recorded in monaural, they could not be used in the film. At the time of Luhrmann's comment, I scratched my head thinking why didn't he just use this type of technology for those recordings.

[elvisfan4-ever]

Yes i'm all for it some are stuck wanting to hear the same old masters,especially if they can pull elvis vocal up from the sun version of how do you think i feel where its buried in the mix cause the mic was off.Elvis would have liked the new technology advances he always loved the new sounds.
listen to the 1968 sit down show before blue suede shoes he said the sounds improved.
Even during the houston press conference 1970 he said i think its fantastic u guys don't know what he would think about it.
it could be done to audience recordings where u cant hear him at all.
its not reprocessed stereo u think that you.re not up to date.

[Wayfarer]

a test remix of “Good Rockin’ Tonight” using Jackson’s proprietary AI technology. The results, “a perfect separation of instruments” along with the removal of tape hiss, were far superior to any more widely available machine-learning methods, so Jorgensen is waiting for access to that level of technology. Once he’s got it, he says, “I’d like to do everything from the Fifties. Because even the Sun recordings, they are very simple. There’s an acoustic and electric and a slap bass. But when you open that up, it’s still like a new revelation. It’s not like it becomes thin and you think, ‘Oh, is that all there is?'”

I'm sharing Ernst's enthusiasm for applying the remarkable audio tool to all the other fifties recordings, not just the Sun tracks. He clearly experienced something expansive emerge from one of the oldest tapes. Maybe his wait for the equipment will be long, but I'm sure Ernst's interest too, will go on.

[dougkapp]

I don't see any problem with turning mono recordings into stereo. The idea is to offer listeners a new perspective. But I think the best opportunity to present this kind of material was on the release of Box Memphis. The Sun stuff in stereo would be the novelty of the box. But that didn't happen.
Maybe in 2027 we'll have a reissue of The Complete 50's Masters entirely in stereo.

[jeanno]

For some reasons, i think that the Sun recordings should not be altered: they sound incredibly well as they are. But i wouldn't mind using that new technology on the sit-down shows from 1968 or on the 1961 hawaiian concert.