Best track on "Elvis sings Flaming star" LP 1968

Post by **jetblack** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:02 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote: If Bobbie Gentry never recorded and released her haunting, massive hit single, there would be no "All I Needed Was The Rain" as we know it today.

What a ludicrous quote. Unless that quote is by the songwriter of 'All I Needed' there is no fact to back up what you are saying therefore your point is mute.

Andy

Post by **Suspicious Minds** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 3:58 pm

How come Tiger Man got on this album and not the TV Special? It was supposed to be the original closing song of TV special.

Post by **drjohncarpenter** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:22 pm

Suspicious Minds wrote:How come Tiger Man got on this album and not the TV Special? It was supposed to be the original closing song of TV special.

"Tiger Man" was never slated as the closer, but was cut from the special by Steve Binder to appease Presley management -- they would not stand for a "Christmas" special without at least one holiday song, thus "Blue Christmas."

Post by **Cryogenic** » Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:40 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:If Bobbie Gentry never recorded and released her haunting, massive hit single, there would be no "All I Needed Was The Rain" as we know it today.

If Elvis never recorded and released his haunting, massive hit single ("Heartbreak Hotel"), there would be no Beatles, Dylan and Nirvana as we know them today. Try harder, Doc!

Post by **Suspicious Minds** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:09 pm

On the end of Tiger Man from the TV Special Elvis says that's the end of the show. It was going to be the closing song but they had If I Can Dream for the closing song instead.

Post by **Spellbinder** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 8:37 pm

Suspicious Minds wrote:On the end of Tiger Man from the TV Special Elvis says that's the end of the show.

I always thought he said "that's the end of the song". I must be wrong.

Post by **The Purple Gang** » Wed Sep 19, 2007 9:11 pm

drjohncarpenter wrote:
Suspicious Minds wrote:How come Tiger Man got on this album and not the TV Special? It was supposed to be the original closing song of TV special.
"Tiger Man" was never slated as the closer, but was cut from the special by Steve Binder to appease Presley management -- they would not stand for a "Christmas" special without at least one holiday song, thus "Blue Christmas."

As a point of interest, when the show was broadcast again in August 1969 'Blue Christmas' was replaced by 'Tiger Man'.

Post by **Cryogenic** » Thu Sep 20, 2007 1:30 am

The interesting thing about this album is that all of the songs here, despite a rather large chronology, are flawlessly sung. I have an affinity for most of them. However, "Tiger Man" is just on a different level (IMO). It's like a statement was being made: "OK, you've heard Elvis singing with commitment, now listen to THIS!"

Post by **minkahed** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:01 am

Suspicious Minds wrote:On the end of Tiger Man from the TV Special Elvis says that's the end of the show. It was going to be the closing song but they had If I Can Dream for the closing song instead.

Why are trying so hard to erroneously re-write history here ?

At the end of the song and performance "TIGER MAN", Elvis clearly, (and jokingly), says, "There ain't no end to this song ..."

Please rectify your false statements to avoid public humiliation in the future ...

Post by **ColinB** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 11:23 am

minkahed wrote:
Suspicious Minds wrote:On the end of Tiger Man from the TV Special Elvis says that's the end of the show. It was going to be the closing song but they had If I Can Dream for the closing song instead.
Why are trying so hard to erroneously re-write history here ?

At the end of the song and performance "TIGER MAN", Elvis clearly, (and jokingly), says, "There ain't no end to this song ..."

Please rectify your false statements to avoid public humiliation in the future ...

To these battered old ears, it sounds like:

"That's the end of the song, baby"

Post by **minkahed** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 2:17 pm

ColinB wrote:
minkahed wrote:
Suspicious Minds wrote:On the end of Tiger Man from the TV Special Elvis says that's the end of the show. It was going to be the closing song but they had If I Can Dream for the closing song instead.
Why are trying so hard to erroneously re-write history here ?

At the end of the song and performance "TIGER MAN", Elvis clearly, (and jokingly), says, "There ain't no end to this song ..."

Please rectify your false statements to avoid public humiliation in the future ...
To these battered old ears, it sounds like:

"That's the end of the song, baby"

Maybe it's time for a hearing aid Colin ...

Post by **ColinB** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:18 pm

minkahed wrote:Maybe it's time for a hearing aid Colin ...

Did someone say something..................... ?

Post by **Suspicious Minds** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 4:52 pm

I just played Tiger Man twice on the ending from this album. I played it on windows media player. It sounds like that's the end of the song. When I played the album version it sounded like that's the end of the show. As with Elvis records there are different takes to each song. Could there be an alternate track with this ending that's the end of the show.

Minkahed don't be cheeky about hearing aids.

Post by **ColinB** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 5:25 pm

Suspicious Minds wrote:I just played Tiger Man twice on the ending from this album.
I played it on windows media player.
It sounds like that's the end of the song.
When I played the album version it sounded like that's the end of the show.
As with Elvis records there are different takes to each song.
Could there be an alternate track with this ending that's the end of the show.

Minkahed don't be cheeky about hearing aids.

Maybe these old ears aren't so battered after all !

He only sang the song once in the '68 Special [apart from a dressing room rehearsal] and that was during the 8 pm 'sit-down' show.

I reckon it's simply a case of being unsure how to bring the song to a neat conclusion, he says "That's the end of the song, baby !" to let the audience [and the band] know that it's a wrap !

Post by **Spellbinder** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 6:39 pm

Without fear of sensible contradiction he definitely says " ...... the song baby". But exactly what he says before that I'm not completely sure.

He might say "end of" or it might be "end to".

Post by **ColinB** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 7:07 pm

Spellbinder wrote:Without fear of sensible contradiction he definitely says " ...... the song baby".
But exactly what he says before that I'm not completely sure.

He might say "end of" or it might be "end to".

But he's definitely trying to wrap the thing up !

The song, that is, not the show.............

Post by **drjohncarpenter** » Mon Sep 24, 2007 10:37 pm

Cryogenic wrote:
drjohncarpenter wrote:If Bobbie Gentry never recorded and released her haunting, massive hit single, there would be no "All I Needed Was The Rain" as we know it today.
If Elvis never recorded and released his haunting, massive hit single ("Heartbreak Hotel"), there would be no Beatles, Dylan and Nirvana as we know them today. Try harder, Doc!

In a broad sense, there is no debating your analogy.

However, it does not apply to my observation, which is a specific reference. Next time, you "try harder," and you'll make a better argument.

minkahed wrote:At the end of the song and performance "TIGER MAN", Elvis clearly, (and jokingly), says, "There ain't no end to this song ..."

This is the correct quotation.

If one listens carefully, the context provides a clue to the genesis of Presley's statement.

"Tiger Man" runs at least a minute longer than expected, due to Elvis' sheer enthusiasm for the Rufus Thomas SUN single. He is simply acknowledging this -- the fact that he could have run it out another minute or ten -- as he slams the door on yet another astonishing small combo performance.

Post by **Gregory Nolan Jr.** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 4:18 am

Yes.In this case, I think it may help to be American - the better to hear (understand) his accent in exactly what he's saying. I agree with Minkahed and in this case, Doc: "there ain't no end to this song...!" (I've never heard it otherwise in decades of listening..)

But on the prior point, as a huge blues fan (and also someone who has heard that Bobbie Gentry song his whole life) I never once heard (or thought) of a connection between it and "All I Needed Was the Rain," not that it's not an interesting hypothesis.

Yet I have always heard it more as a rootsy return to the blues he was steeped as a youth in Memphis. That's much more obvious, as the blues boom (the Rolling Stones and many other bands) were so influenced by it.

Structurally, I don't hear much in common, although there is a surface level similarity in instrumentality and his tone , having the quietly confessional feel of many a folk or blues song.

On the other hand, I will grant that the "acoustic" / folksy song had been millling around since the popular ascendency of Bob Dylan (and roots-based rockers like the Rolling Stones) as well as things like the Newport Jazz Festival (featuring many "rusty figs" bearing their souls on vocal and a guitar) so much that Elvis (or his writers or producers ) surely been both picking up on the same strands i(direct and indirect) in the culture.

Elvis knew this music and this song (and others at the time) were a way of saying, "hey, I was rootsy when y'all were in diapers..."

The chronology, if true, as was pointed out, doesn't appear to bear out a direct connection between this song and the Gentry hit.

Post by **drjohncarpenter** » Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:06 pm

shanebrown wrote:... it seems ironic that you have brought it up.

No, actually it doesn't, as Cryogenic was the one who revived the debate -- and not without a bit of condescension. Please see the 13th post on page two of this topic. I chose to gently disabuse him of his misstatement -- which is well within the forum rules, the last time I checked.

You might also notice that I continued to discuss the current "Tiger Man" tangent as well. Care to join in?

Post by **drjohncarpenter** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 1:28 am

shanebrown wrote:I'm just fascinated that you continually avoid the question I asked you ages ago about backing up your statement.

Off the track we go ...

As anyone may note by scrolling back, I have repeatedly answered your question to the point of reader fatigue.

That you continue to belabor this point, while twice ignoring MY request to acknowledge this --

Greatest Living Entertainer - Music field

-- reeks of hypocrisy. Clearly, I misjudged you.

Post by **Cryogenic** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 2:43 am

Gregory Nolan Jr. wrote:Yes.In this case, I think it may help to be American - the better to hear (understand) his accent in exactly what he's saying.

Greg -- you may have meant well, but please watch your assumptions. I am thoroughly British and understood the wording on a first view / listen. Elvis is very clear and lucid throughout the broadcast. I have never found his accent a problem.

Post by **ekenee** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:26 am

Cryogenic wrote: I have never found his accent a problem.

************************************************

You do have a good ear. I have been desiphering Elvis for over 30 years and its many a challenge for me.

I think I'm in the majority here based on the many,
"what'd he say" threads over the years.

Post by **drjohncarpenter** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:46 am

shanebrown wrote:As for the other thread, if you look the fifth posting up from the bottom of the 3rd page of that thread, you will see that I did, in fact, reply to you as requested.

Nope.

Here is the link AGAIN ->

http://www.elvis-collectors.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=394120&#394120

No comment from you, even after I pointed it out again and again. Why is that?

Post by **Gregory Nolan Jr.** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 4:30 am

ekenee wrote:Cryogenic wrote: I have never found his accent a problem.

************************************************

You do have a good ear. I have been desiphering Elvis for over 30 years and its many a challenge for me.

I think I'm in the majority here based on the many,
"what'd he say" threads over the years.

Cry', - I didn't mean that every Brit would struggle with it but that by and large, it helps to have an ear for Southern-accented American English, which by definition tends to emphasize our ocean-wide differences in speech.

Many a fellow northerner in the USA would not catch that either...

Post by **GIRL HAPPY BOY** » Wed Sep 26, 2007 7:46 pm

I like that LP
i choose : WONDERFUL WORLD

also enjoy: NIGHT LIFE that didnt get any votes
sincerely
LIOR B.