Movie: KING CREOLE , in colour ???

[ekenee]

Whenever someone reflects on a black and white movie, they talk about the mood, and the directors use of light and shadows and etc.. etc...

Bottom line is that Black and white film was cheaper to produce than color.

They started a yet untested star in "love me tender" and probably didn't want to spend the cash for color.

With "King Creole" Mr. Curtiz being a long -time director from the old days, probably chose black and white because he was used to it.

If the film was being made today, it would be filmed in color.

How many artsy type black and white films are made today? Not many.

You also have to realize that you are talking about techonology as well.

Color film came about in the late 20's or early 30's while black and white had already been around for nearly 3 decades since.

When film was invented it was made in black and white.

It wasn't til much later that it was "improved".
Although they did color tint some black and white movies too. But this was a laborous frame by frame ordeal.

But like most purists, we like the product in its original form, but if Elvis was starting out in the 1970's he would have had no black and white movies.

Bottom line: I don't think "King Creole" would be any less a movie if it was colorized. A good movie is a good movie.
The same goes for if the movie is seen at the theatre or on TV.
Or viewed with stereo sound or mono speaker.
Or full screen or wide screen.
Or scratchy old 16mm or DVD.

You can take a real crappy movie and dress it up real good with all the fancy technological equipment at your disposal but you will still have a crappy movie with a sharper picture. And vice-verca.

One of my favorite movies of all time is "its a wonderful life".
I wouldn't like it any better or worse if it was in color.
They could have filmed it in color, but it was more expensive back then.
I think though for most of us, its simple.
Color is just easier on the eyes.

[Jesse Garon]

Exactly Ekenee.

B&W was cheap (not so much "artsy")

but -
Clooney shot GN&GL in color but artifically grayscaled it to look B&W because true B&W is expensive now! It's so rare a process it costs more.
A reverse of the situation.


Why bother setting Creole in New Orleans if we never get to REALLY see those many neon signs and Bourbon Street culture and not even what color Elvis' clothes are!?

I say:
give us the choice of seeing King Creole in Color.

[MauriceinIreland]

I read the Harold Robbins story in black and white and my imagination added the colour

[likethebike]

Because the audience today is spoiled beyond belief and won't stretch their imaginations in the slightest. It's the same reason why studios desecrate movies shot in the widescreen format for video release. It's called pandering. There have been movies I have seen in the past 20 years that have been hurt by the commercial necessity of color. Listen to Directors like John Frankenheimer or Elia Kazan discuss what black and white photography meant to their movies. Frankenheimer only stopped using B/W in the very late 60s. It's worth noting that Curtiz had used color back in the 1930s in "The Adventures of Robin Hood" so he wasn't an old man refusing to adapt. Even so movies like 'Memento", "Good Night and Good Luck", "Ragin Bull" and "Schindler's List" make use of B/W photography because it is good for the story.

Why don't we overdub our own voices on Elvis' tracks and then have RCA release them to the public?

[ColinB]

Why don't we overdub our own voices on Elvis' tracks and then have RCA release them to the public?

Have you heard Sam's singing voice ?

Crocodile Dundee on helium.

[sam]

Why don't we overdub our own voices on Elvis' tracks and then have RCA release them to the public?

Have you heard Sam's singing voice ?

Crocodile Dundee on helium.

Now Colin have you been sneaking a listen to my CDR collection of overdubbed Elvis songs???

I am quite proud of them!!!



PS where do I get a nice jumpsuit like yours for a reasonable price??

[elvislennon]

Their is a colorized version of It's A Wonderful Life. Alot of the RKO pictures are now owned by MGM. King Kong for example is now a MGM movie, I am talking about the 1933 movie. It was made by RKO but when that company quit making movie MGM and Warner bought rights to all of the RKO pictures. King Kong can be found in Colorized but did deep in the pockets to get it. I seen it on ebay go up as high as 100 dollars. I don't think they should colorized any movie at all. It really doesn't look right at all. Alot of times the actors/actresses will look as they got a high fever at times. It is like Wizard Of OZ would you want the first part of it Colorized and then go into true color, I wouldn't. The movie is perfect the way it is. It is the same as King Creole and Love Me Tender they are perfect the way they are.

[ekenee]

Yes and when Jimmy Stewart found out they colorized his movie, he was not pleased with the studio either.

The "the wizard of oz" made the best use of color because in an era of mainly black and white movies, they used color to show the fantastic dream sequence to spectacular results.

What if they just colorized Elvis and left the rest of the movie the same?
I'm kidding.

[Guest]

no way.jailhouse rock was ok but i always watch it in black & white.i agree king creole in black & white gives it power and mood its pure 50s .there is somethings you cant touch king creole is one.

You'd be amazed just how far the world has flushed?. Hell, know what you can get for a hot fudge sundae in Mumbai nowadays?

[Elvis' Babe]

i think colorization of certain movies makes them better. the shirley temple movies come to mind. those are supposed to be bright, colorful and cheerful.

the only thing that always bugs me is when you see people's gums or the insides of their mouths, they are still gray. lol

as far as king creole and jailhouse rock...the only one that i will give artistic merit to in terms of use of black and white film is jailhouse rock. it actually looks quite a bit different than a lot of black and white films--there is a lot of contrast in the film. king creole feels very much like a normal black and white film...jailhouse rock looks different to me.

frankly, i'd like to see the colorized versions and then decide which i prefer.

the shirley temple movies, i have many of them in both b&w and color...i guarantee that i'd watch the colorized ones first. it brings a lot of life to the movies.

i'm more of the opinion that b&w as an art form is a load of crap for old films, for the artsy fartsy film critics to keep patting their behinds trying to sound superior because they call it art. it's because it was cheaper.

mel brooks using it in young frankenstein to harken back to the genre of the films he was parody-ing, is a different story than an old movie that was filmed in b&w because it saved money.

[drjohncarpenter]

i'm more of the opinion that b&w as an art form is a load of crap for old films, for the artsy fartsy film critics to keep patting their behinds trying to sound superior because they call it art. it's because it was cheaper.

If we start a fundraising effort on the MB, we might be able to scrape together enough money for you to finally get your G.E.D.

[Scatter]

EB, sorry, but your thesis that B&W photography in-and-of itself is not pure art, but simply a cost-cutting measure or dictated purely by technological necessity is so obtuse it's scary.

If you had watched a number of B&W movies, the difference in quality and artistry from film to film is actually staggering.

There were men who shot in B&W...........and there were men who raised it to an artform of ambience, mood, and evocative genius.

Why don't we just whip out some crayons and update those old-fashioned Ansel Adams prints??? After all, his use of B&W just shows how cheap he was

[Elvis' Babe]

whoa, whoa...i never said it wasn't good for certain films. but yes, the original b&w movies were made because there wasn't either another choice or it was cost-effective. when both formats were available and it wasn't for cost reasons, then you can make the case for artistic merit.

i'm not dense. and yes, i do think the shirley temple movies benefitted from colorization, due to the nature of the films themselves. they belong in color just as much as the wizard of oz, imo.

old horror flicks, however, do better in black and white, due to the nature of the genre.

elvis films like love me tender, being the one i can see having the biggest case made for it being fine colorized, probably falls in the cost-effective b&w category.

and yes, i do think the academics spend a lot of time patting each other's behinds.

[Scatter]

and yes, i do think the academics spend a lot of time patting each other's behinds.

No argument there...........but in this case they are clearly in the right.

[Elton]

YOU Decide..I vote for best of both worlds

[drjohncarpenter]

i'm not dense.

Of course not. And the earth is flat, too.

[Gayle]

Lior,

I don't see the reason they shouldn't make it in color. People can choose to watch it in Black and White or Color. Whatever is their preference.

I've never seen Jailhouse Rock in Color. I didn't even know they made a color version until I read this thread.

Gayle

[GIRL HAPPY BOY]

Helloooo!!!!!!!!! Dear GAYLE
How are you ? great to see you here
Yes, you right... for me, i really like the B & W version but if there is a chance to see KING CREOLE in colour...why not?
To see Elvis in coloures in the 50' thats cool....you should see the colour version of JAILHOUSE ROCK
Take care & keep in touch
sincerely
LIOR

[ColinB]

There's a story been doing the rounds for years that King Creole was originally filmed [at least in part] in colour.

Perhaps they started it in colour and got cold feet because of the expense !

Anyway, wouldn't it be great to see the footage ?

And it would serve as a good guide if they ever decided to colorise the b & w version !

[Melanie]

I have seen the colorized version of Jailhouse Rock. Terrible, just terrible.

"Keep Ted Turner and his God damned Crayolas away from my movie!"

- Orson Welles, shortly before his death, speaking about Ted Turner's colorization of B&W classics, specifically Citizen Kane.

Enough said, end of discussion...

But

I recently got "I Dream Of Jeannie" Season One on DVD. The episodes have been colorized by Sony Entertainment. They invinted a new technology. I must say I have never seen the b/w version and that version isn't available on DVD here, but I was pleasantly surprised by the result. It is not as bad as I had thought. However I noticed there was some rather strange pigmentation and sometimes the colors look off (especially hair and teeth).

I can't imagine "The Hustler" in color. Or Psycho. Or "Dr. Strangelove". Imagine the war room scenes in color! I think Stanley Kubrick would roll over in his grave.

The fact is when they originally filmed in b/w the director, cameramen, lighting people etc. etc. all knew they were filming in b/w. The decisions made about camera positions, lighting etc. etc. where all based on what the final product would look like.

So personally I'd say no to colourising, keep everything with its original format, aspect ratio, and music. Another thing I'd like to add is the beauty of black and white. I don't know about the rest of you, but to me there's something really artistically creative about black and white. Also some directors like Billy Wilder prefered b/w material, also as an artform, so why ruin their vision?

And with Elvis three movies? Are there even enough still pictures in color to almost exactly match the colors from clothes, hair to background? I don't want any person to take liberties and just colorize as they please. That said I prize historical accuracy and I think the mood of King Creole would be ruined if it was in color. Maybe it would sell, but I doubt that i.e. the fans who refuse to watch the film, because the story too "violent", would watch it then.

[Melanie]

Also another imporant factor that people seem to forget is the biggest problem with colorization is that you're not operating on a blank slate. You're coloring over the grey tones of the b&w frame. So it will always look dampened and unappealing.

And in many films, b&w wasn't just a necessity. It was a choice. The great cinematographers used contrast the way they might use the pallette in a color film.

Even in "this digital world" is a long-winded and above all expensive process. Studios won't use it unless they know they'll recoup the costs in sales, and the even limitless DVD market couldn't guarantee that.

Colorization is a sore point with a lot of people. It's a completely artificial process applied to works that were created and intended to be viewed in monochrome. You could use the argument with TV shows (as opposed to classic films) that had the producers had access to colour film/video, the shows would have been shot that way, but that misses the point that because the shows were made in monochrome, they were filmed with monochrome techniques (which differ from colour filming techniques). Would you have a flowery print applied to the dress of the Mona Lisa to brighten her up? If your answer's yes, you're just being a troll.

I love the films and TV shows I do because of the QUALITY of them -- not because they are filmed in color or black & white.

[ekenee]

I see your point with the "I dream of Jennie" box set. They probably wanted it to match with the remaining seasons of the show, which I believe are all in color. With TV I would guess the choice was more do with money than artistic reasons. Especially a sitcom like this.
Back then long after the studios were shooting in color, half the households still only had a black and white television in the house.
The transition really took about 5 years.

But certain tv shows such as "outer limits", "the twight zone", amoung others, the best choice may be to just leave it as is.

[Cryogenic]

I have seen the colorized version of Jailhouse Rock. Terrible, just terrible.

"Keep Ted Turner and his God damned Crayolas away from my movie!"

- Orson Welles, shortly before his death, speaking about Ted Turner's colorization of B&W classics, specifically Citizen Kane.

You are my hero, Melanie. I was tempted to come into this discussion a couple of days ago and use that EXACT quotation. But I didn't because I knew some people would misconstrue it as only being relevant to artful films like "Citizen Kane" -- fortunately, your subsequent words have covered the necessary ground to show how even the smallest and cheapest of films, with the least of pretensions, should be respected and presented in its original format. Bravo!

[elvislennon]

Also another imporant factor that people seem to forget is the biggest problem with colorization is that you're not operating on a blank slate. You're coloring over the grey tones of the b&w frame. So it will always look dampened and unappealing.

And in many films, b&w wasn't just a necessity. It was a choice. The great cinematographers used contrast the way they might use the pallette in a color film.

Even in "this digital world" is a long-winded and above all expensive process. Studios won't use it unless they know they'll recoup the costs in sales, and the even limitless DVD market couldn't guarantee that.

Colorization is a sore point with a lot of people. It's a completely artificial process applied to works that were created and intended to be viewed in monochrome. You could use the argument with TV shows (as opposed to classic films) that had the producers had access to colour film/video, the shows would have been shot that way, but that misses the point that because the shows were made in monochrome, they were filmed with monochrome techniques (which differ from colour filming techniques). Would you have a flowery print applied to the dress of the Mona Lisa to brighten her up? If your answer's yes, you're just being a troll.

I love the films and TV shows I do because of the QUALITY of them -- not because they are filmed in color or black & white.

That is 100% correct. On B&W movies to make them colorized they don't remove the B&W. They colorized over that and sometimes it works ok and other times it turns out UGLY.......as you know I capitalized UGLY.

I have the promo to Bewitched and the first season has been colorized too. From the episodes that is on the promo DVD which is the first three episodes, I wouldn't buy the first season if my life depending on it. They look terrible. I haven't seen I Dream of Jeannie but I guess it will look the same way.
Yes, it is widely known that Orson Welles, Jimmy Stewart and other actors from that time hate the time of Colorization. Orson Welles' family was one of those who sued Ted Turner to quit Colorizing movies. They didn't recieve any money in the law suit but Ted Turner was allow to make many more colorizing movies. For those who hasn't seen Citizen Kane, I recommend not because it is considered as the worst colorization movie that was ever done. As for King Creole being filmed in Color, that is all that is, just a rumor and it was proven false too about five years ago. There was only one thing that was filmed in color during the time of King Creole and that was from a 16mm hand held camera that a camera brought onto the set and film a day of production of making a film with Elvis. That film now belongs to EPE and only release a little bit to the pubilc. It was given by the man who filmed it to Elvis and told Elvis to keep this with his blessings. Elvis gave him a new house for that film. But the movie itself was not filmed in color, neither was Jailhouse Rock or Love Me Tender. Elvis' Babe I also have Shirley Temple three of her movies in color and they don't do a thing to the movie but make it worst. Shirley Temple even said herself that her movies should be kept in B&W, and if you wondering yes she is still alive. She doesn't owned her movies but she said that any true Shirley Temple fan would like her movies in B&W than in Color unless it was filmed in Color. She was also part of that same lawsuit with Ted Turner. I think the colorization of movies that was originally filmed in B&W looks worst than ever. See I been knowing the history of colorization of movies since my father being collection 16mm and 8mm films. He was big in collecting films at one time. So I know a thing or tow about films.........

Oh, and about filming movies in Color. It was just the idea that Color film cost money. During the 30s to about 1952, there were only about three to five cameras that can film in color. It was real hard to get the cameras if you want to film in Color. Color movies didn't hit big until the 50s when you had more movies being film in Color all the time so more and more cameras was made. 1952 was the dawn of Widescreen with The Robe being the first widescreen movie. But it was the first thing film, widescreen dates back to the 20s but most of them was disappointments. So lens had to be made so it will fit on all the cameras that was available. Most people hates Widescreen which I really don't see why. Widescreen you get the whole movie than Full Screen which you only get about half of the picture. So when the new Star Wars Original Trilogy comes out as they was shown in the original air dates. George Lucas even said that there will be no full screen editions at all. He said if this will lose money then in his own words "Oh Well".

As for Colorizing movies, if you want to see a movie colorized and the company wwon't do it, then "Oh Well". Personally I don't any thing in B&W to be colorized at all. I think I am in the majority on that because alot of people are not really liking what is being done to the movies/tv shows/shorts.